Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

Key lock degrades sound quality, even with small pitch values

maxi_mus 10:01 AM - 29 May, 2015
Our audio engineer, who does our studio as well as our live mixing, noticed that even a small pitch like +2% has a noticeably degrading effect on the quality of the sound when key lock is enabled. We thought there would have to be some faulty device or setting at first, so we tested it on different hardware and software - only to confirm that this is just the way it is. Listening to the bass, you can clearly hear some sort of 'chopping' effect.

A quick Google search reveals that this has been mentioned for years - obviously without being revised. Serato (SL or DJ) seems to lag behind competitors' products in a major way with regards to this functionality.

Has this ever been addressed by the developers? Surely, the answer cannot be to buy an expansion pack, as Pitch 'n Time is marketed for high pitch values, and we can't seriously be expected to shell out another 29$ for a function that seems absolutely elementary for a product with an 800$ price tag.

Sorry for starting a new thread, the forum search function doesn't work.
LJ_WOOLSEY 1:50 PM - 29 May, 2015
Stop being cheap and buy it wow $29 breaking the bank!! Fss
BleedR 3:25 PM - 29 May, 2015
Actually I'm curious if it makes a difference for +/-2% pitch values.
Can someone please test this? With and without PnT.
I'm pretty sure any pitch with key lock on is degrading the quality, the more % the worse it gets...
Mr. Goodkat 7:15 PM - 29 May, 2015
key lock in ssl and sdj is awful. pnt is good. buy pnt.
AlxRyde 10:51 PM - 29 May, 2015
PnT is worth the $29, yep.

I took a brief look at a track at +2%, turning PnT off and on. I feel like there's a very minute difference, without PnT it sounded a little more tinny, and the soundstage was a bit more compressed. i.e. with PnT it sounded a little more true to life.
I might be picking up what you're hearing in the bass channel; I don't have a subwoofer or decent monitors at home to really check, but on HD25s I feel that the bass channel does get changed in some sort of way without PnT.
As a sanity check, at 0%, turning PnT off and on didn't have any noticeable effect on sound quality.

Going to record a few seconds with and without PnT and do a janky check in Audacity to see if I can pick anything up.
AlxRyde 11:23 PM - 29 May, 2015
so this is weird. I'm no sound engineer so I don't know if I'm completely right on my words, someone should double check me. I did a comparison of a dubstep track I just randomly pulled out of my library, it's (London Grammar - Wasting My Young Years (Sound Remedy Remix) ). here's a link to the files used, audacity project, etc. : www.dropbox.com

compiled mp3, left channel lacks PnT, right channel has PnT
www.dropbox.com
from my perspective, the right channel is hitting harder in the low frequencies than the left.

spectogram of 0 to 250Hz of the track:
www.dropbox.com
there's a little more color below 60Hz on the right channel?
Mr. Goodkat 1:33 AM - 30 May, 2015
are u just turning off pnt or using the standard key lock that comes with sdj?
AlxRyde 8:25 AM - 30 May, 2015
all I'm doing between cases is just unticking PnT in the Settings. Keylock was on for both cases, which were at +2%. To my knowledge, when PnT is enabled, it just replaces/overrides the regular Keylock algorithm when Keylock is on? i.e. there isn't a separate button for PnT keylock, just the one Keylock button.
bibster 5:27 PM - 30 May, 2015
Last night at a gig it was convient for me to just take a couple of usb sticks and use the pioneer nexus flagship cd decks . ive some old mk 3's that i never use so im familiar with the quality of the key lock on the older cd dex,

I bought pitch n time expansion for my serato set up the day it was released , it sounds
absolutely STUNNING !!! NOTHING rivals it !!! thats now the polished standard im used to.

The quality of the key lock on those pioneer 2000 nexus stupidly expensive dex is
ABYSMAL !!! the bundled serato key lock is far superior to it also .
in fact im amazed that this is not being talked about everywhere ????
serato dj dvs for me always
Mr Wilks 6:01 PM - 30 May, 2015
P'nT is great but really colours the sound with certain styles. I find deep house I have to turn it off even at a 2% variance. It's awful but overall sounds better over other styles.

It's worth it to me.
Mr. Goodkat 9:02 PM - 30 May, 2015
what ive always heard is that for the most part it shouldnt be used in all situations. i think most leave it on full time, but realistically small adjustments like +-2 shouldnt need it.

but i could be wrong, should you leave it on all the time or??
BleedR 2:52 AM - 31 May, 2015
Quote:
Actually I'm curious if it makes a difference for +/-2% pitch values.
Can someone please test this? With and without PnT.
I'm pretty sure any pitch with key lock on is degrading the quality, the more % the worse it gets...


So? Anyone able to Test this?
Mr Wilks 6:40 AM - 31 May, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Actually I'm curious if it makes a difference for +/-2% pitch values.
Can someone please test this? With and without PnT.
I'm pretty sure any pitch with key lock on is degrading the quality, the more % the worse it gets...


So? Anyone able to Test this?


Don't quote me on this but I think there's a sample of Madonna's 'Holiday' in the P'nT thread back from lady year when it first dropped. There's lengthy discussions over there with samples of audio too I think.

Read No Handles posts from here and he confirms it's present from 0% pitch serato.com

House music with a clean kick at the beginning sounds like a duck quacking underwater.
Mr Wilks 6:41 AM - 31 May, 2015
Lady year?

**last year
nik39 9:47 AM - 1 June, 2015
Quote:
House music with a clean kick at the beginning sounds like a duck quacking underwater

Yup.

The sound sounds indeed "watered down". Transients are washed out. Kicks are less sharp. It sounds like the pre and post echo on poorly encoded mp3s with low bitrates.
kebzer 8:30 AM - 2 June, 2015
First of all, Serato software doesn't have an $800 price tag. I don't wanna play the devil's advocate, but lets be fair on this part. $800 is the cost of your equipment with which SDJ came with. Depending on your taste, you could have paid more or less for a bundle with SDJ.

The PnT plugin brings great value for $29. This is not some over bloated FX pack, this is a function well proven on the field, with great results. Though, it's not for everyone. It's an extra feature for DJs using key lock at pitch values higher of 3%. Some people need this flexibility (myself included), some others don't.

However, I've noticed myself too that key lock (even with PnT) doesn't always work with all mp3s. For some reason, I usually spot differences in the waveforms and sometimes also in the sound of mp3s @320 kbps, with legit conversion algorithms.

Nevertheless, the rule of thumb for key lock is never go more than 10bpm, even with PnT. For ranges above that, the result can be unexpected. Sometimes it works, but better check it back home first.
Detroit's DJ Skillz!!! 12:04 PM - 2 June, 2015
Until the last Serato DJ release, PnT had been working out flawlessly for me! Lately, some of my tracks sound choppy, as if PnT is no longer working. I click the key lock off, then back on. This seems to reset PnT and the keylock, once again, sounds flawless! Here in Detroit, we play music well above 3% pitch values...
maxi_mus 2:25 PM - 2 June, 2015
The exact price tag is irrelevant. What is disturbing to me is to charge extra for what I consider to be basic functionality. According to another thread a 99 cent iPhone app has the better algorithm than the basic SDJ key lock.

On a general note, I just bought a different expansion pack a couple weeks ago, which I can't use fully ATM because of a bug. All of Serato's software is just so extremely buggy and prone to errors that this is becoming a matter of principle to me that I don't spend money here anymore.
maarawoe 9:33 PM - 2 June, 2015
Quote:
The exact price tag is irrelevant. What is disturbing to me is to charge extra for what I consider to be basic functionality. According to another thread a 99 cent iPhone app has the better algorithm than the basic SDJ key lock.

On a general note, I just bought a different expansion pack a couple weeks ago, which I can't use fully ATM because of a bug. All of Serato's software is just so extremely buggy and prone to errors that this is becoming a matter of principle to me that I don't spend money here anymore.


Let me tell you a story about the bugs I faced in Traktor.....................
AlxRyde 1:37 AM - 3 June, 2015
^, I kind of want to switch to Traktor because of functionality sometimes, but my trust in Serato and Traktor is like night and day.

I tried giving a buddy an intro to DJ'ing over the weekend. Started off with my SDJ setup, plug and play meant he was up and running with a copy of one of my smart crates and the NS6 within 10 minutes. We only really ran into problems with audio/mappings when he wanted to bring home the Mixtrack and I was showing him MIXXX and such :(
Serato, Support
Matt P 12:09 AM - 5 June, 2015
Quote:
On a general note, I just bought a different expansion pack a couple weeks ago, which I can't use fully ATM because of a bug. All of Serato's software is just so extremely buggy and prone to errors that this is becoming a matter of principle to me that I don't spend money here anymore.


Let me know what this is and we'll look into it. Do you have a help request ticket #?

You can expect updates to be made to PnT doing more than basic key lock too, stay tuned.

MP
bibster 3:40 PM - 18 June, 2015
who cares if the occasional file doesn't work flawlessly with p n t ! 97percent of the time it does , and i stretch some stuff +30 and you wouldnt know .
the more staccato a tune is the more you get away with

You can expect updates to be made to PnT doing more than basic key lock too, stay tuned.

MP

mmmmmm interesting :) im guessing time stretch effects and possibly even bing able to manually transpose key ? i would love that but it will also take some skill out of djing its another sync or not sync debate