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Gap Band wins settlement against Uptown Funk...

DJ Art Pumpin Payne 6:18 PM - 5 May, 2015
www.soultracks.com

But wait - they also went for them on the Trinidad James with the "Don't Believe me just watch" ??? WITF???

Quote:
Billboard Magazine reported today that Charlie, Robert and Ronnie Wilson of The Gap Band have now received both songwriting credit and a share of royalties for the Mark Ronson/Bruno Mars hit, "Uptown Funk" - the biggest song of 2015, with sales of over 5 million copies.
That Blurred Lines vs Marvin started some shit...

Quote:
What was originally a composition credited to Ronson, Mars, Phillip Martin Lawrence and Jeffrey Bhasker, was later expanded to include Nicholas Williams (aka Trinidad James)/Devon Gallaspy for the song's similarity to the Trinidad James hit "All Gold Everything" (especially the repeated phrase "Don't believe me just watch."). Now with The Gap Band credit, songwriting royalties will be split into six equal portions. (Does anybody think that The Time or ZAPP will be calling next?).
^^THIS!
CMOS 6:23 PM - 5 May, 2015
I can see it for Uptown Funk but, Im surprised they got it for All Gold Everything.

Its literally a sentence.

This means if you ever repeat a line you have to pay up????

WTF
DJ Remy USA 6:35 PM - 5 May, 2015
Quote:
I can see it for Uptown Funk but, Im surprised they got it for All Gold Everything.

Its literally a sentence.

This means if you ever repeat a line you have to pay up????

WTF


Bruno says it alot tho in the song so I can see it here being an interpolation of use if I used that word right
Davideon 7:05 PM - 5 May, 2015
Omg. That's even more ridiculous than the blurred lines bullocks. How anyone with a grain of a brain can go with that is bonkers.

US sue anything that walks culture for you?
Mr. Goodkat 10:11 PM - 5 May, 2015
good, make some original music you overpaid hacks!
MPC O.G. 11:08 PM - 5 May, 2015
Quote:
Omg. That's even more ridiculous than the blurred lines bullocks. How anyone with a grain of a brain can go with that is bonkers.

US sue anything that walks culture for you?

Just pay to clear the sample. Done. The Blurred Lines thing was they played the song for Marvin Jr. Then said it was a "TRIBUTE". He said pay to clear the sample. They said no, then SUED MARVIN GAYE. Nona is trying to get the song and album PULLED from ALL media since Robin Thicke talked shit about the whole Gaye family. Other than Blurred Lines what OTHER song off that album got ANY burn?
AKIEM 12:26 AM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
I can see it for Uptown Funk but, Im surprised they got it for All Gold Everything.

Its literally a sentence.

This means if you ever repeat a line you have to pay up????

WTF



"don't believe me just watch"


That shit aint copyrightable - these people have gone crazy.

Someones trying to destroy the music industry...
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 12:50 AM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
"don't believe me just watch"


That shit aint copyrightable - these people have gone crazy.


Think about if they took the next word...

"Ni66a, Ni66a, Ni66a," - Watchwww.youtube.com
AKIEM 12:52 AM - 6 May, 2015
lol
DJMark 2:08 AM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
Someones trying to destroy the music industry...


I've been listening to a lot of 60's/70's recordings from radio stations recently, and one thing that stands out is that borrowing of vocal lines and melodies was going on at least just as much then as now. But it was very rare to have lawsuits generated, even with blatant examples like The Hollies virtually copying Creedence Clearwater Revival "Green River" (and scoring a big hit with "Long Cool Woman In A Black Dress"), and a large number of lesser examples. George Harrison being sued in the mid 70's for supposedly infringing on "She's So Fine" was an anomaly.

I'd hoped the Marvin Gaye/Robin Thicke suit might also be an anomaly (partly because they said some pretty stupid things when that song was first released), but I guess the infringement casino is officially opened for business.

So I suppose Natalie De La Rosa and Jeremih should be expecting to hear from the estate of Whitney Houston shortly? Or maybe their mere top-10 record doesn't look deep-pockets anough...
AKIEM 3:25 AM - 6 May, 2015
Yup.


If this continues, its kind of an attack on the music making process. No one creates music in a void. Its always a reference.....
Mr. Goodkat 3:26 AM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
So I suppose Natalie De La Rosa and Jeremih should be expecting to hear from the estate of Whitney Houston shortly? Or maybe their mere top-10 record doesn't look deep-pockets anough...


Gets 46 million plays on spotify. makes 277$. :P
Discobee 3:37 AM - 6 May, 2015
But wait....isn't there an official remix featuring Trinidad James on the first verse? Maybe that's what his credit is really referring to.
MPC O.G. 3:43 AM - 6 May, 2015
If people just PAY to clear the sample. It would be OK. How many of you have sampled the "Amen" break? The " Funky Drummer"? Just pay up. FUCK EXCUSES.
AKIEM 3:47 AM - 6 May, 2015
This isn't about sampling tho.

Some of these cases are probably fair usage which for whatever reason dumb juries decided otherwise.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:56 AM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
www.soultracks.com

But wait - they also went for them on the Trinidad James with the "Don't Believe me just watch" ??? WITF???

Quote:
Billboard Magazine reported today that Charlie, Robert and Ronnie Wilson of The Gap Band have now received both songwriting credit and a share of royalties for the Mark Ronson/Bruno Mars hit, "Uptown Funk" - the biggest song of 2015, with sales of over 5 million copies.
That Blurred Lines vs Marvin started some shit...

Quote:
What was originally a composition credited to Ronson, Mars, Phillip Martin Lawrence and Jeffrey Bhasker, was later expanded to include Nicholas Williams (aka Trinidad James)/Devon Gallaspy for the song's similarity to the Trinidad James hit "All Gold Everything" (especially the repeated phrase "Don't believe me just watch."). Now with The Gap Band credit, songwriting royalties will be split into six equal portions. (Does anybody think that The Time or ZAPP will be calling next?).
^^THIS!


Ha, this is great!
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:56 AM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
good, make some original music you overpaid hacks!


EGGGGXAACCCTTLLLYYYY!!!!
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:58 AM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Omg. That's even more ridiculous than the blurred lines bullocks. How anyone with a grain of a brain can go with that is bonkers.

US sue anything that walks culture for you?


Just pay to clear the sample. Done. The Blurred Lines thing was they played the song for Marvin Jr. Then said it was a "TRIBUTE". He said pay to clear the sample. They said no, then SUED MARVIN GAYE. Nona is trying to get the song and album PULLED from ALL media since Robin Thicke talked shit about the whole Gaye family. Other than Blurred Lines what OTHER song off that album got ANY burn?


Gangsta.
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 4:03 AM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
If people just PAY to clear the sample. It would be OK. How many of you have sampled the "Amen" break? The " Funky Drummer"? Just pay up. FUCK EXCUSES.

Like mentioned above - it's not samples.

Until I read and posted this - I NEVER thought about the similarity of the "Ooops up side ya head - say Ooops upside ya head" and "Uptown - funk - you - up, Uptown funk you up" lyric toward the end of the song. Or are they talking about the Dum, dum, da dum bassline vocal sound??

What part won the suit I wonder?
AKIEM 4:08 AM - 6 May, 2015
Flood gates cracking.... Shit makes no sense.
DJMark 6:27 AM - 6 May, 2015
This would be as though the O'Jay's had been sued in 1972 for singing "smiling faces tell lies sometimes" toward the end of "Back Stabbers", since that line was borrowed from "Smiling Faces" by The Undisputed Truth (a big hit the previous year).

R&B songs in that era were borrowing from each other like crazy.

Uptown Funk and Blurred Lines are both derivative, but there's nothing in either than should justify legal action (except maybe from Madonna, whos "Give It 2 Me" was actually the original "Blurred Lines" production from Pharrell several years earlier).

Like I said earlier, I hoped that "Blurred Lines" was just a freak case with flames fanned by stupid comments. The "Uptown Funk" lawsuit is really alarming. Like every #1 hit is now going to be a potential target because someone hears something that reminds them of something from 30-40 years ago?
MPC O.G. 10:57 AM - 6 May, 2015
A copy is a copy. It's CHEAPER to cover the song and just give credit. NO MATTER WHAT Y'ALL SAY. They went to Marvin's family and tried to fuck them over. PERIOD. They were WARNED not to do it. How did they respond? The sued Marvin's estate. THAT IS WHERE THE WHOLE DRAMA BEGINS AND ENDS. Why is that so hard to understand? If you use Blurred Lines in a commercial Thicke & Pharrel are going to want to get paid. And Pharrel SHOULD shut the fuck up because ALL his productions in the last few years sound like Marvin or Gamble & Huff. Listen to "HAPPY"........."Ain't that Peculiar?" Carry on though.
nik39 11:31 AM - 6 May, 2015
C'mon.. I read that the Gap Band are getting 17% of the net income. Do you really think that using that one line "Uptown - funk - you - up, Uptown funk you up" justifies 17%??
MPC O.G. 12:04 PM - 6 May, 2015
That's why you pay UPFRONT. Why should someone get paid off YOUR work? On this VERY forum people call out people for stealing other people's mixes, or completely claiming someone else's work. Same principle. Sampling was made to be a bad thing, so people went to doing covers. Now people THINK they don't have to pay for lifting pieces of someone else's songs. WRONG.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:15 PM - 6 May, 2015
This is great.
nik39 12:30 PM - 6 May, 2015
17%? For one line which doesn't even make the song. You could remove that line and it would not change the song.

Okay, only those stupids who request for the "funk you up-song" would have to adopt :D
Davideon 12:31 PM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
C'mon.. I read that the Gap Band are getting 17% of the net income. Do you really think that using that one line "Uptown - funk - you - up, Uptown funk you up" justifies 17%??


Is it the vocal rhythm which is the issue? I listened to Oops yesterday and thought it was a trumpet line which is really low in the mix.
AKIEM 2:00 PM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
That's why you pay UPFRONT. Why should someone get paid off YOUR work? On this VERY forum people call out people for stealing other people's mixes, or completely claiming someone else's work. Same principle. Sampling was made to be a bad thing, so people went to doing covers. Now people THINK they don't have to pay for lifting pieces of someone else's songs. WRONG.


Thats because we have laws which (are suposed) to dictate the difference between stealing and referencing.

Otherwise whoever has the earliest ownership of a song with "I love you" should clean up right about now.
CMOS 5:50 PM - 6 May, 2015
I listened to Camrons Swagger Jacker just now. I think Jay about to lose his millions to lawsuits if this keeps up.

lol
Thundercat 8:32 PM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
whoever has the earliest ownership of a song with "I love you" should clean up right about now.


I was just thinking that. Glad I read the whole thread before I posted or you might sue me for coming up with the same hypothetical post as you...

(goes to check the titles on all the tracks I have been working on)
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 10:44 PM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
except maybe from Madonna, whos "Give It 2 Me" was actually the original "Blurred Lines" production from Pharrell several years earlier).


Wow, i didn't know that was Blurred Lines beats - I remember the song but it was kinda -meh- so I never played it so it was under the radar. Plus I have never been a fan of Pharrel's production anyway.
Discobee 11:12 PM - 6 May, 2015
^^What about Drop It Like It's Hot? No likey either?
DJMark 11:35 PM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
except maybe from Madonna, whos "Give It 2 Me" was actually the original "Blurred Lines" production from Pharrell several years earlier).


Wow, i didn't know that was Blurred Lines beats - I remember the song but it was kinda -meh- so I never played it so it was under the radar. Plus I have never been a fan of Pharrel's production anyway.


If you pitch down "Give It 2 Me" down about -6%, you'll hear that it's nearly identical to the music of "Blurred Lines", except that the Madonna was in A-flat minor and Robin Thicke in G major. Speed-matched by slowing down Madonna -6%, her song is then G Minor.

Since in the past she's been highly aggressive about unauthorised use (she was always a reliable HELL NO back in the remix-service era), I'm a little surprised that she's apparently stayed silent about "Blurred Lines" recycling her song.
nik39 11:53 PM - 6 May, 2015
I don't think Pharrel recycled her song. Pharrel just has his sound, and there are dozens of Pharrel/Neptunes songs which sound very similar beat wise. My 2 cents.
DJMark 11:57 PM - 6 May, 2015
Quote:
I don't think Pharrel recycled her song. Pharrel just has his sound, and there are dozens of Pharrel/Neptunes songs which sound very similar beat wise. My 2 cents.


It's not just recycled, it's EXACTLY THE SAME.
AKIEM 1:37 AM - 7 May, 2015
Uh oh.... Bob James hates hip hop....

gothamcityesq.com
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 1:53 AM - 7 May, 2015
This is GREAT....lol.
MPC O.G. 4:33 AM - 7 May, 2015
Bob James hates Hip Hop but he LOVES the checks, that's why he CONTINUES to clear samples. How many times has "Nautilus" been flipped. Don't see what that has to do with the conversation, but I'm intelligent enough to make it part of the convo without getting emotional about it.
AKIEM 6:05 AM - 7 May, 2015
Quote:
Bob James hates Hip Hop but he LOVES the checks, that's why he CONTINUES to clear samples. How many times has "Nautilus" been flipped. Don't see what that has to do with the conversation, but I'm intelligent enough to make it part of the convo without getting emotional about it.


Thats why I posted it.

I think Bob James perspective and criticism is interesting. He doesn't understand because he comes from a different understanding on what constitutes creativity.

I'm sure he does like those checks tho... And I bet most people who know who he is *nowadays know him because he was greatly sampled jot because they actually listen to his albums. Where WOULD he be without sampling?
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 6:06 AM - 7 May, 2015
Quote:
^^What about Drop It Like It's Hot? No likey either?

One of the few that I would play but If I was skimming my library 9 out of 10 times I'd probably pass it. I'd probably drop a MIMs tune or Can't Stop Won't Stop if I wanted that feel. Something that hit's harder....

Didin't that Mr Me Too and one or two of his other songs make that "Hard To Mix Tunes" thread a while back?
nik39 8:08 AM - 7 May, 2015
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Didin't that Mr Me Too and one or two of his other songs make that "Hard To Mix Tunes" thread a while back?

Yeah. Esp that track called "Grindin'
DJ GaFFle 2:21 PM - 7 May, 2015
Quote:

Yeah. Esp that track called "Grindin'

Dope, DoPe, DOPE track!
DJ GaFFle 3:08 PM - 7 May, 2015
Quote:
Uh oh.... Bob James hates hip hop....

gothamcityesq.com

I was mad for what he did to Flash's routine in WildStyle.
d:raf 9:53 PM - 7 May, 2015
AKIEM 11:55 PM - 7 May, 2015
^ ha
d:raf 1:28 AM - 8 May, 2015
...and on the prosecution's side:

Watchwww.youtube.com
AKIEM 1:33 AM - 8 May, 2015
Quote:
...and on the prosecution's side:

Watchwww.youtube.com


Um... I did manage to erase that shit from my memory..... trying again - now.
AKIEM 1:41 AM - 8 May, 2015
The defense says...
youtu.be
the SOUNDINSURGENT 2:05 AM - 8 May, 2015
Quote:
If people just PAY to clear the sample. It would be OK. How many of you have sampled the "Amen" break? The " Funky Drummer"? Just pay up. FUCK EXCUSES.


Cost more to sample a track then just to do an updates remake of the track......
AKIEM 2:10 AM - 8 May, 2015
Paying for samples is not at all affordable by most artist who sample.
d:raf 3:24 AM - 8 May, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
...and on the prosecution's side:

Watchwww.youtube.com


Um... I did manage to erase that shit from my memory..... trying again - now.


i.imgflip.com

Quote:
The defense says...
youtu.be


That was gonna be next week's (if the thread was still going)... lol
AKIEM 7:56 AM - 8 May, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
...and on the prosecution's side:

Watchwww.youtube.com


Um... I did manage to erase that shit from my memory..... trying again - now.


i.imgflip.com


Dude. Thats fucked up man.


Quote:

Quote:
The defense says...
youtu.be


That was gonna be next week's (if the thread was still going)... lol


Thats fine, play it again! Everyone will get on the floor if you do.

Got any more?
MPC O.G. 8:40 AM - 8 May, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
If people just PAY to clear the sample. It would be OK. How many of you have sampled the "Amen" break? The " Funky Drummer"? Just pay up. FUCK EXCUSES.


Cost more to sample a track then just to do an updates remake of the track......

You can cover a song, as I stated earlier. These guys just think they can jack people shit then lawyer up and it's cool. It's not. And as far as PAYING for the sample up front, you can give up a percentage of the profits, which is the fair thing to do because no matter what, you are seeking to get paid off of SOMEONE ELSE'S SHIT. NO EXCUSES.
AKIEM 5:01 PM - 8 May, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If people just PAY to clear the sample. It would be OK. How many of you have sampled the "Amen" break? The " Funky Drummer"? Just pay up. FUCK EXCUSES.


Cost more to sample a track then just to do an updates remake of the track......

You can cover a song, as I stated earlier. These guys just think they can jack people shit then lawyer up and it's cool. It's not. And as far as PAYING for the sample up front, you can give up a percentage of the profits, which is the fair thing to do because no matter what, you are seeking to get paid off of SOMEONE ELSE'S SHIT. NO EXCUSES.


That depends. If you are an independent artist working with sample based music and are only making several grand in profits - that wont work
Davideon 5:03 PM - 8 May, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If people just PAY to clear the sample. It would be OK. How many of you have sampled the "Amen" break? The " Funky Drummer"? Just pay up. FUCK EXCUSES.


Cost more to sample a track then just to do an updates remake of the track......

You can cover a song, as I stated earlier. These guys just think they can jack people shit then lawyer up and it's cool. It's not. And as far as PAYING for the sample up front, you can give up a percentage of the profits, which is the fair thing to do because no matter what, you are seeking to get paid off of SOMEONE ELSE'S SHIT. NO EXCUSES.


do you think Up Town Funk copied anything?
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 5:13 PM - 8 May, 2015
Quote:
That depends. If you are an independent artist working with sample based music and are only making several grand in profits - that wont work


Then if they can't afford it, they should choose a sample that they CAN afford.

Some people MAY want to take a chance on you become a partner in profit, but that leaves all the promotion up to the person pushing the song....How good the song is, how well received, etc..etc..

Others may not CARE and just want a check up front, which hits the artist in the pocket, which SHOULD motivate them to do their best work to get that money back...

Either way, the artist wins, and it may rejuvenate their career if it needs that as well.

I just hope this fosters more ORIGINAL music to be created....however, those creating it probably won't be musicians...
AKIEM 5:57 PM - 8 May, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
That depends. If you are an independent artist working with sample based music and are only making several grand in profits - that wont work


Then if they can't afford it, they should choose a sample that they CAN afford.


Its unaffordable as a method from its inception - meaning that it would never have developed as a method. It would not exist as an art form.

Also, the laws (sampling) were changed AFTER the method was developed.


There should have been laws and systems created which would equitably satisfy the artist and IP owner as the technology and methods developed.

For example, performance royalties work 'great' comparatively. But what if every time we DJd (especially think before laptops) we had to submit a playlist and pay each artist we played that night a couple cents? It would be ridiculous - If DJing even developed under such a system it would probably be mostly illegal except for 'big money' events.

If instead of making 'sampling' 100% illegal without permission, instead there was an automatic royalty collection system put into place (like performance royalties) there would not be so much 'illegal' usage. And artists who make four digit profits could also pay their fair share.


Quote:

Some people MAY want to take a chance on you become a partner in profit, but that leaves all the promotion up to the person pushing the song....How good the song is, how well received, etc..etc..

Others may not CARE and just want a check up front, which hits the artist in the pocket, which SHOULD motivate them to do their best work to get that money back...

Either way, the artist wins, and it may rejuvenate their career if it needs that as well.

I just hope this fosters more ORIGINAL music to be created....however, those creating it probably won't be musicians...


Heres an interesting article:
www.cnn.com
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 6:16 PM - 8 May, 2015
[QUOTE]But what if every time we DJd (especially think before laptops) we had to submit a playlist and pay each artist we played that night a couple cents? It would be ridiculous - If DJing even developed under such a system it would probably be mostly illegal except for 'big money' events. [/QUOTE]

For all intensive purposes, MOBILE DJ'ing IS in fact illegal if you go by the strict legal sense based on how the DJ model was built along with music "lent" for "Promotional Purposes Only".

Corporations turned a blind eye by offering equipment for Mobile DJ'ing to cash a check. Technically, DJ equipment "Should" be only available to "Licensed" DJ's.

Think radio jocks, and club owners.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 6:17 PM - 8 May, 2015
Quote:
But what if every time we DJd (especially think before laptops) we had to submit a playlist and pay each artist we played that night a couple cents? It would be ridiculous - If DJing even developed under such a system it would probably be mostly illegal except for 'big money' events.


For all intensive purposes, MOBILE DJ'ing IS in fact illegal if you go by the strict legal sense based on how the DJ model was built along with music "lent" for "Promotional Purposes Only".

Corporations turned a blind eye by offering equipment for Mobile DJ'ing to cash a check. Technically, DJ equipment "Should" be only available to "Licensed" DJ's.

Think radio jocks, and club owners.
AKIEM 7:54 PM - 8 May, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
But what if every time we DJd (especially think before laptops) we had to submit a playlist and pay each artist we played that night a couple cents? It would be ridiculous - If DJing even developed under such a system it would probably be mostly illegal except for 'big money' events.


For all intensive purposes, MOBILE DJ'ing IS in fact illegal if you go by the strict legal sense based on how the DJ model was built along with music "lent" for "Promotional Purposes Only".

Corporations turned a blind eye by offering equipment for Mobile DJ'ing to cash a check. Technically, DJ equipment "Should" be only available to "Licensed" DJ's.

Think radio jocks, and club owners.



And thats somewhat my point...


There are some people who hate DJs - "why dont you learn an instrument" That same thinking is applied to sampling - "why dont you learn an instrument" but to a much greater degree. I think the reason for that is there is a automatic payment system (however flawed) which takes care of the "theft" when it comes to DJing.


If 'digital copyright laws' accounted for sampling music and there was a clear easy way to follow the rules IMO, people would be less uptight and yelling about all this "STEALING"

Maybe juries would not rule 'sounding kinda the same' as theft.
d:raf 3:43 AM - 9 May, 2015
Quote:

Quote:
Quote:
The defense says...
youtu.be


That was gonna be next week's (if the thread was still going)... lol


Thats fine, play it again! Everyone will get on the floor if you do.

Got any more?


Well, there's this slightly thugged-out perspective: Watchwww.youtube.com
MPC O.G. 2:51 PM - 9 May, 2015
This is what happens when you build a whole label on sampling and NOT paying for using them. He just wants his checks. They've done business before. Why sneak?


www.okayplayer.com
Davideon 3:54 PM - 9 May, 2015
Quote:
This is what happens when you build a whole label on sampling and NOT paying for using them. He just wants his checks. They've done business before. Why sneak?


www.okayplayer.com


Again, do you think up town funk copied anything?
AKIEM 4:53 PM - 9 May, 2015
Quote:
This is what happens when you build a whole label on sampling and NOT paying for using them. He just wants his checks. They've done business before. Why sneak?


www.okayplayer.com


If Stones Throw paid for all samples they would never have existed in the first place.

Sampling would not even exist as an artorm.


Referencing might, but it would only be done by artists with huge budgets. And then again might not have ever developed as a method.

So....
AKIEM 4:56 PM - 9 May, 2015
We also wouldnt have sampling work stations... nothing more than some extra shit you could do on your synthesizer keyboard.
Davideon 5:05 PM - 9 May, 2015
There's arguably more skill and musical ability in sampling than making the original sound.

If you listen to the original tracks that Fat Boy Slim sampled for use onhis first 2 albums, it's incredible to hear how such bland boring nondescript passages of uncared about music could be used to totally different and effective use.
Davideon 5:07 PM - 9 May, 2015
I'm also still to read which part of up town funk is supposed to have been copied from Oops Upside your head
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 5:38 PM - 9 May, 2015
Quote:
I'm also still to read which part of up town funk is supposed to have been copied from Oops Upside your head


I think it was the vocal inflection at 2:55 - "Up - town - Funk -You - Up" .vs "Ooops Up- side - ya Head" youtu.be

Not even based on a sample??? Or is there an actual sample that was STOLEN?
AKIEM 5:47 PM - 9 May, 2015
Quote:
There's arguably more skill and musical ability in sampling than making the original sound.

If you listen to the original tracks that Fat Boy Slim sampled for use onhis first 2 albums, it's incredible to hear how such bland boring nondescript passages of uncared about music could be used to totally different and effective use.



Yup.

The other thing about Bob James in particular - no one would even care about Bob James today if it were not from being sampled. If there's one record guaranteed to be found at goodwill its some Bob James... Sure he should get paid but hating on the whole process which kept him relevant in anyway? He should be happy dudes like the sounds he was making to bother reanimating them.
AKIEM 5:50 PM - 9 May, 2015
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The defense says...
youtu.be


That was gonna be next week's (if the thread was still going)... lol


Thats fine, play it again! Everyone will get on the floor if you do.

Got any more?


Well, there's this slightly thugged-out perspective: Watchwww.youtube.com


Ah yeah... Gimmie that beat fool... lol


Hmmm, I got another one... Let it marinate for a second...
Mr. Goodkat 8:32 PM - 9 May, 2015
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Quote:
I'm also still to read which part of up town funk is supposed to have been copied from Oops Upside your head


I think it was the vocal inflection at 2:55 - "Up - town - Funk -You - Up" .vs "Ooops Up- side - ya Head" youtu.be

Not even based on a sample??? Or is there an actual sample that was STOLEN?



thats all i could get too. i was thinking that da dumm-dumm, da dumm-dumm, but i can find that in the orig song.

is it more or ?
Logisticalstyles 12:18 AM - 10 May, 2015
Quote:

The other thing about Bob James in particular - no one would even care about Bob James today if it were not from being sampled. If there's one record guaranteed to be found at goodwill its some Bob James... Sure he should get paid but hating on the whole process which kept him relevant in anyway? He should be happy dudes like the sounds he was making to bother reanimating them.


That's debatable. He's been recording since the 60's up through 2013. He's played with some of the best in the jazz game and is still touring to this day. He was one of the founding artist of the "smooth jazz" genre. Plenty of people find him relevant, otherwise he wouldn't be booking shows. Even if no one sampled him in Hip-Hop, his core audience would still be there. It's not like he tried to get hip and put out hip hop records based on the strength of his music being sampled. Bob James is still making Bob James records. He just wants to get paid when people use his work.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:31 AM - 10 May, 2015
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The other thing about Bob James in particular - no one would even care about Bob James today if it were not from being sampled. If there's one record guaranteed to be found at goodwill its some Bob James... Sure he should get paid but hating on the whole process which kept him relevant in anyway? He should be happy dudes like the sounds he was making to bother reanimating them.

This, don't sleep on that Jazz crowd.

That's debatable. He's been recording since the 60's up through 2013. He's played with some of the best in the jazz game and is still touring to this day. He was one of the founding artist of the "smooth jazz" genre. Plenty of people find him relevant, otherwise he wouldn't be booking shows. Even if no one sampled him in Hip-Hop, his core audience would still be there. It's not like he tried to get hip and put out hip hop records based on the strength of his music being sampled. Bob James is still making Bob James records. He just wants to get paid when people use his work.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:32 AM - 10 May, 2015
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The other thing about Bob James in particular - no one would even care about Bob James today if it were not from being sampled. If there's one record guaranteed to be found at goodwill its some Bob James... Sure he should get paid but hating on the whole process which kept him relevant in anyway? He should be happy dudes like the sounds he was making to bother reanimating them.


That's debatable. He's been recording since the 60's up through 2013. He's played with some of the best in the jazz game and is still touring to this day. He was one of the founding artist of the "smooth jazz" genre. Plenty of people find him relevant, otherwise he wouldn't be booking shows. Even if no one sampled him in Hip-Hop, his core audience would still be there. It's not like he tried to get hip and put out hip hop records based on the strength of his music being sampled. Bob James is still making Bob James records. He just wants to get paid when people use his work.

^^This^^ Don't sleep on the Jazz crowd.
Mr. Goodkat 2:40 AM - 10 May, 2015
theres always a kid thats so far removed from old people that they assume that no one knows them/him/her.

ahh the days...
AKIEM 11:28 AM - 10 May, 2015
Well I know Bob James from his first five or so albums which Ive owned since the late 80s. I doubt he charted latter than the era of his first albums, 70s.

Check, yup his last album according to wiki 2013 Rhodes Scholar.

first google entry: www.npr.org

Professing love for Bob James' music can yield a side-eye in some circles. Jazz purists routinely view the keyboardist's 1970s period as a progenitor to smooth jazz — an idiom they frequently react to as if it were a sign of the apocalypse.

Nevertheless, James knows his way around the keyboards, and has demonstrated a keen gift for concocting catchy melodies and funky grooves, enticing many R&B and funk fans. His music also seduced legions of hip-hop and deep house producers such as DJ Jazzy Jeff, Q-Tip, Pete Rock, Dr. Dre and Kenny "Dope" Gonzalez. In fact, James' output on the CTI and Tappan Zee labels is some of the most sampled music in hip-hop.

That's one of the reasons why the new two-disc compilation, Rhodes Scholar: Jazz-Funk Classics 1974-1982, is a motherlode for any DJ looking for jams with a deeper sense of music history that will still ignite dance floors. And don't be surprised if you hear some of today's funk-informed jazz stars such as Robert Glasper, Karriem Riggins and Ben Williams drop a Bob James quote or two in their live performances <--the irony


Like I said, if it wernt for sampling no one would have ever heard of him (obviously not meaning all trace of him would have been removed from public record) But the FACT is that the art of sampling has greatly aided his career and recognition. The art of sampling has surely provided a nice stream of income which must have helped keep him viable.

So I see it as ironic that he would come out against the hand feeding him so harsh (not to be confused with going after due cash).

Its too bad that he doesnt simply accept sampling as an EXTENSION of his body of work instead of "theft"

en.wikipedia.org(musician)
Legacy
James is recognized as one of the progenitors of smooth jazz.[<-ok, and->] His music has also been sampled often in hip hop music. Two of James' songs – "Nautilus" from 1974's One and "Take Me to the Mardi Gras" from 1975's Two – are among the most sampled in hip hop history. "Nautilus" has been most famously sampled in Eric B. & Rakim's "Let The Rhythm Hit 'em", Run-D.M.C.'s "Beats to the Rhyme", Ghostface Killah's "Daytona 500", Soul II Soul's "Jazzie's Groove" and Jeru the Damaja's "My Mind Spray" amongst many others and the notes of "Nautilus'" bassline were played on a keyboard for Slick Rick's "Children's Story". According to whosampled.com, "Nautilus" and "Take Me to Mardi Gras" have been sampled in thirty-two and forty-three hip-hop recordings, respectively. "Take Me to the Mardi Gras" (written by Paul Simon) incorporates in its first four measures a bell and drum groove that is one of hip hop's fundamental breakbeats. Crash Crew's "Breaking Bells (Take Me To The Mardi Gras)", Run-D.M.C.'s "Peter Piper", LL Cool J's "Rock the Bells", the Beastie Boys' "Hold it Now, Hit it", Missy Elliott's "Work It," will.i.am's "I Got it from my Mama," "This Is Me (Urban Remix)" by girl group Dream for their debut album It Was All a Dream, "I Want You" from Common's Finding Forever, and most recently "Take It Back" from Wu-Tang Clan's 8 Diagrams.
Röyksopp sampled his version of the Stylistics song "You're as Right as Rain" for their instrumental track "Eple." The title track from his 1981 album Sign of the Times was sampled in De La Soul's "Keepin' the Faith", and Warren G's "Regulate". In addition, James is mentioned in a verse by André 3000 on "Black Ice" from Goodie Mob's second album Still Standing.
His "Angela" was sampled in the track "Cab Fare" by Souls of Mischief, an out-take from their album No Man's Land.
The track "El Verano" from the 1977 album "BJ4" is used as a sample in the song "Blown Away" by the Cocoa Brovaz and also in the Masta Ace Track "NY Confidential".
English Drum & Bass pioneer Adam F extensively sampled "Westchester Lady" on his 1995 breakthrough release Circles.
One's "Night on Bald Mountain" is used in the video game God Hand, and forms the soundtrack to a level of the same name.
N.W.A's "Alwayz Into Somethin'" and New Edition's "Hit Me Off" uses a sample of "Storm King" from the album Three.
"Nautilus" was used in video game developer Rockstar's "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" on the fictional radio station, Master Sounds 98.3.
"The Rhythm" by Kwamé the Boy Genius features a sample of "Look-Alike" from the album Lucky Seven.
"Can't Wait" by Redman features a sample of "Caribbean Nights" from the album Touchdown.
"MC's Smoke Crack" by Edan features a sample of "Look-Alike" from the album Lucky Seven.
"Sign" by Coldcut features a sample of "I Feel A Song (In My Heart)" from the album Two.
"Pure Pleasure" by DJ Cam features a sample of "Nautilus" from the album One.





He was sampled a lot - obviously a huge part of his legacy
MPC O.G. 12:35 PM - 10 May, 2015
To say no one would have known who he was without sampling is ridiculous. MOST of us older guys got their love of music and records from their fathers when being a REAL FATHER was a cool thing to do. My pops listened to jazz almost constantly when he was not at work. I have a lot of jazz records these youngins have never, ever, heard of. But for some reason they KNOW they've heard it before. SAMPLING. Why STEAL when you can cut a deal? You WILL get caught. FACT. If you can't cut a deal, COVER the record and lose some of the publishing. If that doesn't work, sample something else. There are literally 100's of thousands' of PUBLIC DOMAIN recordings. USE THEM. Don't let the IDEA of fast money put you into a financial whole you will never get out of.
Davideon 1:00 PM - 10 May, 2015
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To say no one would have known who he was without sampling is ridiculous. MOST of us older guys got their love of music and records from their fathers when being a REAL FATHER was a cool thing to do. My pops listened to jazz almost constantly when he was not at work. I have a lot of jazz records these youngins have never, ever, heard of. But for some reason they KNOW they've heard it before. SAMPLING. Why STEAL when you can cut a deal? You WILL get caught. FACT. If you can't cut a deal, COVER the record and lose some of the publishing. If that doesn't work, sample something else. There are literally 100's of thousands' of PUBLIC DOMAIN recordings. USE THEM. Don't let the IDEA of fast money put you into a financial whole you will never get out of.

shall we assume that you do think up town funk stole?
AKIEM 5:09 PM - 10 May, 2015
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To say no one would have known who he was without sampling is ridiculous. MOST of us older guys got their love of music and records from their fathers when being a REAL FATHER was a cool thing to do. My pops listened to jazz almost constantly when he was not at work.


Again: I do not literally mean - not one single persons would know who Bob James was <-- thought I made that clear.

I was speaking figuratively, and I stand by my words - figuratively speaking.

You might know who he was - I would not. And whats funny is my father was a radio DJ, and for quite a while on a Jazz station (as well as others). But he also disliked 'Fusion and Soft Jazz' or whatever... So...

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I have a lot of jazz records these youngins have never, ever, heard of. But for some reason they KNOW they've heard it before. SAMPLING.


Which is EXACTLY my point. We agree.

Without sampling, these youngins [I dont know if that includes me here] would never have heard of Bob James. In fact when my father seen a had a couple CTI record asked why I had any of that "crap"? To sample was my answer.


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Why STEAL when you can cut a deal? You WILL get caught. FACT. If you can't cut a deal, COVER the record and lose some of the publishing. If that doesn't work, sample something else. There are literally 100's of thousands' of PUBLIC DOMAIN recordings. USE THEM. Don't let the IDEA of fast money put you into a financial whole you will never get out of.


Its not about getting away with "stealing". Like I said, people should pay for samples. But there should be a reasonable system in place which makes it possible at every profit level or there should be a rather high threshold. Otherwise the art of SAMPLING WOULD NOT EVEN EXIST to be discussing it. <- get it? The system in place is not affordable - the art would never have developed in the first place.

Sampling was DEVELOPED by DJs who played records for MCs. It was not that someone said 'hey, Im going to steal this shit'

And the laws wernt "clarified" (if they can be called that) till the early 90s, well after the atestry was developed.



I think whats emerged since there is no official system is simple - if I am making enough money to be sued then I should be paying, otherwise dont worry about it.

I laugh when dudes who have never sold a record, have no record deal, and have no budget and they try to go 'clear a sample' - LMAO!
Mr. Goodkat 6:06 PM - 10 May, 2015
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To say no one would have known who he was without sampling is ridiculous. MOST of us older guys got their love of music and records from their fathers when being a REAL FATHER was a cool thing to do. My pops listened to jazz almost constantly when he was not at work. I have a lot of jazz records these youngins have never, ever, heard of. But for some reason they KNOW they've heard it before. SAMPLING. Why STEAL when you can cut a deal? You WILL get caught. FACT. If you can't cut a deal, COVER the record and lose some of the publishing. If that doesn't work, sample something else. There are literally 100's of thousands' of PUBLIC DOMAIN recordings. USE THEM. Don't let the IDEA of fast money put you into a financial whole you will never get out of.


because for the most part you arent going to lose any money. you are just going to have to give them proceeds from the record and publishing rights and credit.

and it depends on if the persona considers it STEALING or ART if you sample. taking a 2 second loop and filtering and pitching is one thing and being puffy are 2 different things.


what kinda of mpc og gets all weird about sampling? thats what the whole machine is based around. of course it was originally used for drums and drum sampling, but from its inception, all sampling drum machines, have been used for sampling for drums and music, and every big producer that used one sampled and im positive, every single sample wasnt cleared.
AKIEM 8:14 PM - 10 May, 2015
Bob James says sampling is not original and so on.

Just checked Billboard - his biggest hit, #88 on the charts, 1974 BJ One (first album), "I Feel Like Makin' Love"

A song he did not write or even originally record. But talking about "originality" LMAO - cmon dude
DJMark 8:44 PM - 10 May, 2015
It's weird that this thread went off onto a tangent about sampling, because "Uptown Funk" doesn't seem to have actually sampled anything.

This case (and the "Blurred Lines" case) was about "derivative works", not sampling.
DJ GaFFle 9:09 PM - 10 May, 2015
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Bob James says sampling is not original and so on.

Just checked Billboard - his biggest hit, #88 on the charts, 1974 BJ One (first album), "I Feel Like Makin' Love"

A song he did not write or even originally record. But talking about "originality" LMAO - cmon dude

I know right? I always remind the elitist PA guys that go on DJ's for not being musicians and playing "playback" music. More than half the time, the live bands they do sound for are playing cover music and don't play their own sh!t.
MPC O.G. 10:48 PM - 10 May, 2015
I don't think they STOLE anything for Uptown Funk, but for them to settle so easily makes it seem like there's something going on. And in a courtroom a derivative work and sample are the same thing. Ask for permission. You can easily check the liner notes and get ALL the publishing info you need.....Laziness is running rampant. If they say no, move on. I can flip ANY song. I'm good at it. I do it for fun. I have no INTENTIONS of putting it out for sale. I might do one for a mixtape a friend of mine is working on. But with that NO PROCEEDS will be received. All that will happen is we would get a cease and desist letter. Hopefully it will create buzz to get people checking for it. THEN I would see if I could cut a deal, even if it meant giving up my producers credit and publishing. Play chess, not checkers.......
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 12:40 AM - 11 May, 2015
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You can easily check the liner notes and get ALL the publishing info you need....
What's a "liner note"???

: )
AKIEM 1:13 AM - 11 May, 2015
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I don't think they STOLE anything for Uptown Funk, but for them to settle so easily makes it seem like there's something going on. And in a courtroom a derivative work and sample are the same thing. Ask for permission. You can easily check the liner notes and get ALL the publishing info you need.....Laziness is running rampant. If they say no, move on. I can flip ANY song. I'm good at it. I do it for fun. I have no INTENTIONS of putting it out for sale. I might do one for a mixtape a friend of mine is working on. But with that NO PROCEEDS will be received. All that will happen is we would get a cease and desist letter. Hopefully it will create buzz to get people checking for it. THEN I would see if I could cut a deal, even if it meant giving up my producers credit and publishing. Play chess, not checkers.......




Ummmm. Thats illegal too bro.


Not only that, I dont see how that is so far away from going ahead with an uncleared sample, try to generate some profits, and if that happens well enough start some negotiations.


If the sample is flipped so its not identifiable, no need to pay for it.

If its identifiable and not generating a profit, again no need to pay for it.

Same with lifting part of a melody or singing a phrase.
DJ Remy USA 4:14 PM - 12 May, 2015
Never heard of Bob James until now ijs
DJ GaFFle 4:55 PM - 12 May, 2015
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Never heard of Bob James until now ijs

ouch!
DJ GaFFle 4:56 PM - 12 May, 2015
As a DJ, I don't think I would have publicly admitted that... :-D
deezlee 5:05 PM - 12 May, 2015
Grab 2 copies of the version of Marti Gras without the bells on the break and yer good.
Mr. Goodkat 5:15 PM - 12 May, 2015
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As a DJ, I don't think I would have publicly admitted that... :-D



that was the beauty of sampling. i remember getting into jazz and funk even some rock i might not know about as 15-16 yr old because of hip hop. in college i used to just a hand full of jazz records from the library when i didnt wanna study and just find samples.

i can remember finding a few premier samples an prob my favorite sample which is the sample for 93 to infinity from billy cobhams heather. which to this day is something i listen to to relax. i stole that record and still have it.
R-Tistic 9:01 PM - 12 May, 2015
"Don't believe me just watch" is the only direct thing taken from Trindad, but the whole structure of the verses was surely from "All Gold Everything." "This here's for them hood girls"...even the "Girls hit your hallelujah, WHOO!" = "Popped a Molly I'm seatin, WHOO!"

It's all derivative for sure, but it was strongly influenced from him.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 9:15 PM - 12 May, 2015
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Never heard of Bob James until now ijs


lol...stop playin....

Then again..

I never heard of DJ AM until this forum.....so....
d:raf 9:50 PM - 12 May, 2015
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"Don't believe me just watch" is the only direct thing taken from Trindad, but the whole structure of the verses was surely from "All Gold Everything." "This here's for them hood girls"...even the "Girls hit your hallelujah, WHOO!" = "Popped a Molly I'm seatin, WHOO!"

It's all derivative for sure, but it was strongly influenced from him.


Don't forget the "I'm too hot... hot damn... call the police and the fireman" vs. "For the hoes; my ni**a... that's pussy poppin' at magic city". Definitely derivative.
DJ Remy USA 1:23 PM - 20 May, 2015
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As a DJ, I don't think I would have publicly admitted that... :-D


We are from different generation with different taste in music. I understand he was sampled and covered a lot after his fame had passed, but so were thousands of other artists too and I dont know all of them I respect all musical influences but I dont claim to know them all...besides I been playing trap queen hot nigga and fist pump music for the last few years...Bob James who....
DJ Remy USA 1:25 PM - 20 May, 2015
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Never heard of Bob James until now ijs


lol...stop playin....

Then again..

I never heard of DJ AM until this forum.....so....


And there you have it, full circle we all come from different back grounds and didnt get exposed to the same things. I knew who DJ AM was before he got big because of brief stint with Crazy Town and I was into metal rap cause the south had taken over hiphop and I lost interest. Anyways there are still people who dont know who Jay-Z is I think thats crazy, hell my girl friend didnt know who Lisa Stansfeild was and I was huhhh you dont know....so yea
DJ Remy USA 1:27 PM - 20 May, 2015
Last thing I will say is that because of this forum my music knowledge has tripled Ive discovered a lot of rare tunes and gems from this forum
Mr. Goodkat 10:10 PM - 20 May, 2015
most people just know him through 'rock the bells' just because that song was used in dj routines so many times. diggin for samples is a lost art, so it must not be that important. (dont tell vinyl diggers that though, they get really pissed about it).
AKIEM 10:14 PM - 20 May, 2015
Mardi Gras, Nautilus and not too much else...

I remember always coming across what other Bob James records and being disappointed he didnt make anything else like those records.
MPC O.G. 10:19 PM - 20 May, 2015
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Mardi Gras, Nautilus and not too much else...

I remember always coming across what other Bob James records and being disappointed he didnt make anything else like those records.

Those 2 songs were made into AT LEAST 100 others.
Mr. Goodkat 10:19 PM - 20 May, 2015
'storm king' is nice too. but really in this day and age with internet and youtube its not hard, its just not valued like it was 20-25 years ago in hip hop dj/production circles.

sampling got so marginalized through its villification that i think most think its not done or isnt an option due to legal reasons.

i went and actually bought the yeezus cd, and his list was like 50-100 samples deep.
MPC O.G. 10:20 PM - 20 May, 2015
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'storm king' is nice too. but really in this day and age with internet and youtube its not hard, its just not valued like it was 20-25 years ago in hip hop dj/production circles.

sampling got so marginalized through its villification that i think most think its not done or isnt an option due to legal reasons.

i went and actually bought the yeezus cd, and his list was like 50-100 samples deep.

Yep. But the music game is moving back to just singles instead an album with 4 hits and 11 fillers. Going back to singles will make using a sample on a 1 on 1 basis MIGHT make it affordable again.
AKIEM 10:24 PM - 20 May, 2015
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'storm king' is nice too. but really in this day and age with internet and youtube its not hard, its just not valued like it was 20-25 years ago in hip hop dj/production circles.

sampling got so marginalized through its villification that i think most think its not done or isnt an option due to legal reasons.

i went and actually bought the yeezus cd, and his list was like 50-100 samples deep.

Yep. But the music game is moving back to just singles instead an album with 4 hits and 11 fillers. Going back to singles will make using a sample on a 1 on 1 basis MIGHT make it affordable again.


Could be. I always think we are nearing the end of the sample era - but it sticks around.
Mr. Goodkat 10:25 PM - 20 May, 2015
i think its best if you just do it like they do and just wait to get sued for small artist. what you have to gain is far greater than anything they do legally. at worst you make a huge hit, get sued, get free pub and give the profits to the band.

ive never seen it as stealing unless it was ridiculous puffy style sampling of the whole inst.
AKIEM 10:28 PM - 20 May, 2015
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i think its best if you just do it like they do and just wait to get sued for small artist. what you have to gain is far greater than anything they do legally. at worst you make a huge hit, get sued, get free pub and give the profits to the band.

ive never seen it as stealing unless it was ridiculous puffy style sampling of the whole inst.


yup
Davideon 6:32 PM - 21 May, 2015
Is it just me or is that All Gold Everything actually really catchy
R-Tistic 9:09 PM - 21 May, 2015
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Is it just me or is that All Gold Everything actually really catchy


That's why it was the biggest song ever in December 2012. It was the catchiest song ever.
Mr. Goodkat 9:13 PM - 21 May, 2015
just realized i had 11 remixes on my computer for this.

delete time.
DJ Art Pumpin Payne 4:31 AM - 22 May, 2015
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Is it just me or is that All Gold Everything actually really catchy

POPPED A MOLLY - I'M SWEATIN!!!! WHOOOO!!!
Davideon 8:34 AM - 22 May, 2015
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Is it just me or is that All Gold Everything actually really catchy


That's why it was the biggest song ever in December 2012. It was the catchiest song ever.


Catchy isn't the right word. Irritatingly infectious though garbage
Mr. Goodkat 9:10 PM - 23 May, 2015
so single number two copies snoop dogs lyrics from 'aint no fun', 'when i met u last nite' and used the same cadence.

good work hack ronson. cant believe this guy won the grammy for producer of the year. i guess he is a good dj....

Watchwww.youtube.com
AKIEM 9:17 PM - 23 May, 2015
hack ronson, that made me chuckle tho
Mr. Goodkat 11:15 PM - 3 August, 2015
ronson's 'i can't lose' copied snoop dogg, 'it ain no fun' (when i met ya last nite baby).

surely he paid this time.
The Despicable Nyan Cat 4:33 AM - 4 August, 2015
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good, make some original music you overpaid hacks!

Pop music's way too commercial nowadays.
The Despicable Nyan Cat 4:35 AM - 4 August, 2015
U know who should win Producer of the year?
Watchwww.youtube.com
d:raf 3:46 PM - 4 August, 2015
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U know who should win Producer of the year?
Watchwww.youtube.com


...with a song from 2013?

(I love Total Science, btw :) )
The Despicable Nyan Cat 8:21 PM - 4 August, 2015
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(I love Total Science, btw :) )

They're the best, they should of won in 2013.
The Despicable Nyan Cat 8:21 PM - 4 August, 2015
The classics never get old