The Pioneer DJM-900SRT still stands as the flagship DVS solution from Pioneer. There are differences including:

- 4 phono inputs rather than 2
- MAGVEL magnetic crossfader
- tempo synced FX
- fader start
- plug-and-play support with Serato DJ (no license required / anyone can connect and use)

srt price will come down, they've been out for almost 2 years.

PNP support is nice, but only a software licensing feature, not hardware. The balance of hardware features are kind of nice extras, but probably aren't going to convince most users to choose an SRT now, over the Nexus, particularly since SRT users will probably want to purchase the Club kit as the majority of club installed equipment will need the upgrade.

The cost of maintaining retail supply chain and support for two mixers when the main difference feature benefit between them has been eliminated is sort of head-scratching.

One could argue the 900NXS is the king again as it offers full support for DVS between both NI and Serato, now, where the SRT only offers it for one.

This is 100% accurate and it is Serato's doing. My Nexus is now worth more to me than my SRT as I can use DVS with SDJ, TP2 AND can also use Rekordbox all natively.

If the Tempo SYNCed FX thing holds true for the SRT ONLY it makes me a LITTLE happier with my SRT purchase as it is one of my favorite features but I'd be surprised if it does NOT happen for the Nexus. I can say I am bookmarking this page so I can bring it back if it does happen.

As for the rest

- 4 Phono inputs. I rarely use two TT's anymore let alone 4
- MAGVEL fader ................. I don't use the crossfader as I mix Dance music
- Fader Start - Didn't even notice
- Plug & Play With Serato DJ (Activate the software ONCE and you are also plug & play) and I have no concern how easy it is for others to use my mixers as i do not let others use my mixers.

SRT price will go down Nexus price will maybe go up even.

Being that the DJM-850 is supported as well why even go for the 900's?
Let's see if you guys decide to support the DJM-2000Nexus. Guess what mixer I passed up for the SRT?? If THIS happens I am not even sure what I would do............ again bookmarked this thread so if the DJM2000 IS supported I can bring up this "Flagship" thing.

Bottom line how would you explain your "Flagship" mixer being dethroned by an older mixer?


I have ALWAYS been positive around here and I am still trying but yesterday's news is testing me no doubt and I apologize if I am coming across harsh. Put yourself in your customer's shoes though. Maybe not all but at least the ones who purchased the second MOST expensive native Serato hardware to date.

To be fair, the 900SRT was released Oct. 2013 so it isn't as egregious if this XPac was released in April 2014.

Again, the main benefit of the SRT package is native Serato support, not the small physical design features. One could argue that those features were added as a red herring because the general user knows there isn't anything more than incremental differences between the interface in the 900SRT vs the 900NXS and that software support is only a matter of an artificial barrier intentionally written into the software as part of LICENSING agreement. It's not a design limitation as was the case with the SL1 and TTM57SL.

The only thing stopping users from hacking in workarounds to bypass these barriers instead of buying the official supported hardware, is their own integrity and the good faith that the natively supported hardware will maintain its value through exclusivity. This decision has effectively incentivized that risk.

I know there will be growing pains if Serato intends to move to a more universal hardware model, but the release of the 900SRT was a dubious offer that many loyal Serato users took up because they wanted to support the company.

I have to say as one of those individuals that had the 850 and SL1 that was literally sold less than 3 weeks ago to get the 900SRT am a bit upset, mind you I knew something like this would happen as soon as I pulled the trigger to purchase something but its a bit upsetting that I've dumped basically 3000 into the 900SRT (due to loss on 850) when I could've got the upgrade for less than 200 more...really kinda sucks. the added features the SRT has over the nexus/850 really weren't that big of a deal to me...not 3k worth anyway...lol. Live and learn I guess.

So what favor do you think Pioneer or Serato can do for us (SRT Owners) to feel a little better?

Just brainstorming, (they might not even care about us anymore)...

i havent tried it in a while but im pretty sure the srt does work with traktor, just not with traktor dvs.

I honestly don't know that Serato owes SRT users anything but this really damages their reputation when it comes to offering natively supported equipment which is purportedly exclusive. It wouldn't be such a burn if the 900SRT wasn't so similar to the 900NXS. Users ran out to buy the gear, spending premium money, under the pretense that this was exclusive functionality to the 900SRT.

At a very minimum, Serato should, in my opinion, offer the club kit upgrade to 900SRT users. Many SRT users probably would like to take advantage of the 900NXS support at club installed systems but having to pay for it the same as NXS users is a real slap in the face.

Honestly, I think this a huge mistake on Serato's part. What does this say to early adopters who spend premium dollars for products which are touted to have exclusive functionality.

It does work, as NI was open to interface design, but without being registered as a Scratch certified device, it won't function with DVS. This is a fairly easy workaround, and even DJ TechTools, known NI proponents have posted articles basically amounting to instructions on how to do this.

Regardless, the NXS has full DVS support for both platforms and I can't imagine that 900NXS will not receive MIDI clock receive from Serato DJ for quantized effects of the on board FX unit.

Yup.
Easy workaround, tried this with my 62.
Works like a charm.

theres a work around to use dvs or just to use traktor?

Just to use with Traktor DVS.

I did compare the soundengines of SSL and TSP using the 62 with dvs, the post got pulled on the N.I. forum, had to edit it.
I can understand, but on the otherhand I have everything legit, but it's the eula.

Serato employee Samuel S flat out says it will NOT have tempo matched FX here. serato.com so this may be set in stone but who knows anymore. They SAID a lot of things at this point...............

Exactly. I think what the reasonable person was to conclude was being said by the release of the 900SRT was that it would be the 900 range mixer to exclusively offer native Serato support.

If that isn't what was being said, or if minds were just changed because of the business case for the sale of (likely) thousands of club kit expansion packs, I'd offer the potential damage to reputation.

This is great for anyone wanting to use club gear. The DJM-900NXS / 850 are much more likely to be able to be sourced on tech riders for clubs. This solves the problem for professionals of having to carry an interface / worry about plugging in and changing over etc. Not just an exercise in making money, we are trying to solve real life DJ problems. Developing support also is not free - our developers do need to eat :)

I do understand the frustrations of some users who have purchased DJM-900SRT mixers. These are still great mixers and support for the DJM-850 / 900NXS shouldn't change anything about this. In fact, the 900SRT has added features and is the flagship model. These include:

- MAGVEL magnetic crossfader
- Fader start for Serato DJ
- BPM synced FX
- plug-and-play support for anyone (no license required per user)
- 4 phono preamps.

Sam.

I think that misses the point. Those features don't add much value and there's nothing to preclude them from being added to the 900NXS via the Club Kit - the most important feature, native support, is being added anyway. Excluding them only serves to piss off 900NXS users, and keep 900SRT users who want to take advantage of the entire point of the Club Kit (Serato use on installed gear) from getting the same experience. There is no reason to artificially cripple gear. Artificially crippling equipment is what caused the SNAFU that is the 900SRT to be spawned in the first place - the 900NXS should have always been supported.

It also misses a larger point. No one is suggesting the 900SRT isn't a good device because of these (sorely needed) improvements the 900NXS. But it overlooks the fact that many people paid more for a 900SRT instead of an 850, sold their 900NXS at a loss, or passed up on the 2000NXS (support for which is inevitable) to get the 900SRT for the allegedly exclusive support. People went to trouble to get this mixer, trouble not justified by the modest list of "flagship features" listed above.

^^^^what he said

the bottom line is that there will always be something in life that isnt fair. owning a 2000$ mixer is not fair to a lot of people that dont have food and water. its a mixer, if you own it, it works as its supposed too, quit complaining.

That statement is so starkly devoid of reasoning, I'm honestly not sure how to respond. Maybe if this was a message board was for discussing the global inequalities of human life you'd have a point. But it's not so you don't.

This is for feedback on Serato products. If you have a line of reasoning that directly pertains as to why anything suggested might not be accurate, correct, or fair, then please. By all means. Samuel S has stated some things of this nature, which I personally disagree with, as I detailed above. However, at least what he's saying *is pertinent*.

If you really believe what you're saying, then surely you won't come here offering feedback ever again because owning ANY electronic device is starkly unfair compared to having access to safe drinking water and food.

u mad?

life isnt fair. is that easier?

That's true but it's also irrelevant. Life will never be fair. This isnt about the fairness (or lack thereof) of life.

for me it's not a question of fair. it's a matter of principle and logic from both ends.

this gear is not cheap. $2000 every year for a mixer to keep up with the times is a huge chunk of change. the serato mod said 'our developers have to eat.' this statement is just as true for us. we're not all hobbyists here - this is my livelyhood!

i understand i don't have to buy everything that's shiny and new - however i feel if i decide to do so i should be rewarded in two ways:

1) i get to be satisfied with new features that were not previously available to me

2) i get to feel secure in the decision to purchase new gear without having to worry about it becoming obsolete within a reasonable time period.

the SRT has now officially added nothing new to the table from the NXS, and has completely changed the way i feel about big companies when it comes to trust and stability. you can have your silly crossfader and your blue lights back, i'll buy an innofader and goto radioshack thank you very much.

i'll come out and say this: i did NOT buy an SRT mixer. i bought a 900nexus and a set of cdj 900s in late 2012 because my 1000mk3s finally died. i was nowhere close to 'latest and greatest' with my gear. why? because i felt like the cdj 2000nexus players did NOTHING substantially different than 900s or even 850s when used in conjunction with serato software. imagine my ultimate anger when SDJ came out and cdj900s were not going to include HID support.

WHY NOT?

same gear, same principle, same basic features, and for damn sure at least MOSTLY the same software architecture of the cdj2000s. then i see this SRT mixer and think to myself, 'this is literally the same mixer with different colors.' i could almost give pioneer the benefit of the doubt by saying 'well maybe the USB stuff is not physically capable of running SDJ somehow.'

but i can't pretend to believe that anymore.

now you're gonna tell me that the NXS mixer can't match up tempo times with SDJ effects? bull, you're just gonna keep that disabled so there's a reason to buy the blue xmas tree with the pioneer logo.

that's the problem. it's not about fair. it's not about evolution. they don't fight for our money with features and diversity anymore. now they make you buy the same technology over and over again, but every year they'll add one feature that should have been there in the first place. XDJ-1000??? remember when the good CDJ's would come out first, and then the cheaper ones would happen afterwards? now what do we get? a denon serato interface? are you kidding? it's the same thing as my SL2 (which is the same thing as my SL1!!!!)

call me a whiner. tell me life isn't fair. i remember when people tried to outdo the other guy with a better product, and then stood behind it. now pioneer and numark release the same freakin controller with the same screen on it at the same time. rane and denon have the same interface. the ttm57 gets replace by ITSELF after we call BS on SDJ 'not supporting usb 1.1 interfaces (DDJSX anyone?).' djing used to be about innovation in music and technology. now it's about the logo and the color of the lights.

i've never wanted a 9-5 so bad.

Just stop buying stuff and yeah I'm sure it's easier said then done.

I refuse to buy ANYTHING from these guys (I will buy the DVS thing though).

Maybe I'd drop the coin for a new SP1 with colored pads but not another mixer or controller.

My DJM T1 combined with the SP1 is on point. I have full control of the software from the mixer and I'll never ditch my tables because we all know they are still the best controllers ever!!

They do this shit to use because they know there's always a group of people who NO MATTER WHAT will run out and buy the shit up!

Hell I still use my Denon 5500's and those players are old!!

There used to be a time where companies cares but those days are long gone. It won't change until we change and stop feeding into their BS.

you're a whiner. if gear companies really get you that down about dj'ing, def get a 9-5. cuz worrying over the obsolescence of mixers you didn't buy says this simple game of playing music is driving you insane.

READ BELOW.



I agree 100%. Can we start a petition? I would be satisfied with my SRT purchase if Serato gave us the Club Kit for free.


Sam, no offense but I cringe every time I read your "PROS" of the SRT. I think Ive read your same pros comment over 6 times. I get it, the SRT has newer features than the Nexus. But as a new owner of an SRT, your pros mean nothing to me. I didnt buy the SRT for magnetic crossfader, nor BPM sync or Fader start. I bought it so I can now use a Pioneer mixer with Serato without a box and extra cables.

Like most have said, it feels like Serato put a smack down to us SRT owners. Had I known SDJ would be available on the Nexus, I would have waited.

Since I made the switch from Vinyl to Digital, Serato has always been my program. Never crossed my mind to use another Brand. Had I known it was a lot easier to use another brand with other mixers, I would have thought twice.

Serato can make it right by sending out SRT owners a free Club Kit. So we can just plug in play at any club that runs with pioneer mixers.

I think Pioneer is the one that should take all the hitting.....not Serato.

As I said before I have butt-hurt due to me literally selling my 850 3 weeks ago and buying the 900srt...giving us the club kit ("thank you, sorry or our bad") would be a great gesture...I play deep tech/tech house...I will never use that crossfader and as it was stated b4 I bought it for the convenience of not having to have an sl box dangling from my 850 like I had B4. Now who chooses to step up to that plate...well.

Lack of support the DJM900NXS initially is in Serato's court well as the choice to add support it now. These mixers are functionally identical, aside from the MAGVEL crossfader and the phono inputs.



I think this is the point that is being missed. On a shelf side-by-side, both mixers are both worth the money, more or less, that you can purchase each of them for. I think anyone could agree on that.

The difference is no one knew that until just a few days ago. I think most users knew that both pieces of equipment (as well as the 850) were completely capable of the functionality that is now being added, it just wasn't going to be and the release of the 900SRT was evidence of this. The choice was then to buy an SL2/3/4 or going to purchase the 900SRT, which users did. Now, all that grief and money is wasted, is essentially wasted.

This is the problem with artificially crippling gear for licensing issues.

It's Pio who GO TO Serato and ask (pay) for support.

FREE DJ KIT for SRT owners...

I saw this coming as a little favor we all deserve.

Pioneer and Serato, are you listening?

If that is even the case, then they should have raised some concerns about users having a rug pulled out from underneath them.

Like others, a free club kit would be nice, but I think more than anything else, what I'd like to see is a future commitment to the customers so this doesn't happen again.

its gonna keep happening to the end of consumer time. sometimes i wonder if you guys live in the actual world where people get screwed every day all the time? new mixer come out, new cars, new bread, new people. You guys expect something every time something bigger and better is out just because you bought it a year after it dropped? c'mon now.

how long should the wait be? 2 years? and dont update other mixers for 2 years. not how capitalism works.

Capitalism is the market price dictating where resources flow through free enterprise. Part of that is market research and consumer feedback. That one of the stated reasons why these message boards exist. Preventing it from happening is done, in part, by letting the company know how the user experience was affected.

Those other things problems don't concern anything on this message board. This is a message board about Serato. By your logic, digital DJing shouldn't even exist because it was the result of people complaining about having to carry around records when other more pressing problems, from hunger, disease, natural disaster to securities fraud and human trafficking go unsolved.

my logic is you are making a big deal about nothing.

^^ Me too, I'll be keeping my SRT...
If I really wanted to use DVS with traktor so bad, I'd buy a separate NI box.
Not gonna happen anytime soon though... ;-)

Why? You don't need an NI soundcard. The one in the SRT (or NXS) will work.

In NXS yes, in SRT only traktor, no traktor scratch (DVS),
unless you do the hack (documented by that dj news site....)

if you are buying high dollar gear and resale is an issue, (as in, you may flip the item to get more kit/gear instead of hanging on to it for 20 yrs) these are my tips.

a look at production date and the history of the line of gear and their release dates. if you buy a 1 year to 2 yr old product expect a update with pioneer gear within 2 yrs. It wasn't always that way, but now it seems to be the norm. WIth Rane, you get a little more time but even they seem to be putting out new designs quicker than they did between the ttm 57 and the 61/62.

find online retailers to get best price, go local to be sure you can return easier. internet may not be as easy, but you may be able to get free shipping or a discount. local guys may meet internet prices but you still have tax. this saves money and the sting of the newer product dropping.

look at trends in the level gear you are wanting to buy. i.e, until the 68 came out most mixers had 1 sound card ala the ttm 57. SInce the 68, the 62& 64 dropped and Pioneer DDJ Sz has started with 2 usbs on controllers. This looks like it will be the standard with many of the HIGHEST END mixers on most manufactures product list.
THEREFORE, IF YOU BUY A MIXER NOW WITH A SINGLE SOUNDCARD, SOMETHING WITHIN THE NEXT 2 YEARS WILL MOST LIKELY COME OUT WITH 2 SOUNDCARDS. FOR A SIMILAR PRICE.

If possible, (i.e. you can wait to upgrade, not, you got your mixer stolen and need a replacement immediately) wait til after NAMM shows.

Like I said, you don't need an external sohndcard. There aren't any differences between the two (maybe some of the internals are of a slightly different make, rectifiers and such) - see the diagram p. 27 for 900SRT, www.pioneerelectronics.com, P. 25 for 900NXS.

This all misses the point. This is not a new mixer that is cheaper with better features being released as a result of technological advancement. The NXS should have supported SDJ to begin with.

An SL2 is much cheaper adjusted for inflation than the SL1 when it was released, yet is a very superior device. However, 2.0 had only replaced USB 1.1 as a ratified standard some 2 years prior. You can't just make an SL1 bus transmit the same amount of data as the SL2 by applying a firmware update and patching SDJ.

But imagine if you could do that. Imagine if Serato had said you need the SL3+ tech (SL2 or 4 included) to run SDJ, which you do. Then imagine they said, a year or two later, after everyone upgraded to SL2s, 61s/62s/64s, we redesigned Serato DJ to work with a USB 1.1 bus, you can now use your SL1s and 57s with Serato DJ.

I think its MEGA BIG NEWS Serato now supporting 900Nexus and 850! But i would still buy the SRT over the nexus for these

Synced sdj fx

And plug and play support.

This is good news - a more open stance on interface support is the right direction.

that was most likely an agreement between pioneer and traktor and had nothing to do with serato software.

The SRT is NOT certified by NI for Traktor Scratch, I do own the SRT...
It will work with Traktor, but NOT Traktor Scratch as standard.
The way NI operate days, not sure it ever will...

However, a software hack can be done to Traktor if you wanna risk it,
that will enable Traktor Scratch on the SRT (and other mixers).
Serato mods, I hope this link si not out of line? -> djtechtools.com

Again, you just demonstrated you don't need an external sound card to make it work.

It works with Traktor 2.6 and below.
2.7 and newer I don't know, they probably gonna fix it if not already.

What's the point of your thread? Have people sell their SRT? You've lost me...
"To make it work" and officially supported are two very different things...

If I were going to buy a 900nxs today, I would still get the SRT. The fact that it has four Phono channels means you can hook your TTs up to any channel you wish. With the standard Nexus, you are forced to connect them to channels one & four. That alone is worth the $200 premium if you ask me. Plus, it also allows anyone w' a laptop and SDJ to connect to your SRT without the need for a license. I wouldn't stress over the Club Kit if I were you....you still have a badass mixer.

Yep, agree. Not stressed one bit, if one thing, I'm REALLY glad they announced the club kit. Looking forward to leave the SL4 at home, just pluggin directly into the club's 900nxs and go! :D

You're right, its still a bad ass mixer. But all these clubs dont own an SRT, they own a 900 or 850. This still means I would need to take a serato box to the club so I can use their mixer and Serato dj. OR take my own mixer (some djs dont respect other peoples properties, so thats a hell no).

Im sure the SRT will continue to sell ONLY if SERATO throws in the Club Kit for free. They can do it just like they threw in the Expansion Packs in the Guitar Center Gold Package.


JUST AN IDEA.

I like that idea, might get a few more serious players hooked into the club kit that way :)

You just pretty much stated it. They are *supposed* to be two very different things, and in theory they are, but when the artificial barriers constructed for congruence with licensing agreements are lifted post-hoc, the difference between them becomes negligible and workarounds are a much more appealing option, particularly for personal users. Licensing must be negotiated carefully when it comes to product branding which are diversified to work across platforms.

It has nothing to do with the equipment, at all. The mixer is solid - it's the nuts as far as Serato goes. I even wrote above:



This isn't about rectifying anything for 900SRT users - I strictly said that I don't know that I expect anything to be given to users but one person asked what might be considered fair restitution, and I gave my opinion about what one option might be, IF we are to assume that anything is owed at all. That's another discussion. Mr. Goodparrot focused on that pretty heavily and then confused the subject about this being one of technological obsolescence. It isn't even really about the 900SRT, although that's certainly a piece of equipment that is impacted by this.

It's about the integrity of non-technological constructs to meet licensing agreements and the communication of the intentions for those constructs and what they mean for users. The 900SRT just happens to be a particularly interesting example because it's literally just a rebranded 900NXS. Yes, it has 2 extra phono inputs, but $60 spent at B&H Photo will give the 900NXS the same capability - yes it has a MAGVEL stock, but most users who care about getting a crossfader better than the 900NXS would probably fit in an Innofader Pro PNP or, if one is inclined to do a little bit of work, an Ecler or PCV style unit.

Look at it from a perspective other than your own, as an individual user. I have had 3 technical advisors and club installers ask my opinion about Serato because ever since 1.6 was released, tech riders have increasingly varied from just contracting a 850/900NXS to also asking for Serato compatibility. Of course, all three I told, without hesitation, to go with an SL-4 because there was nothing else on the market that is going to get them what they need if you're trying to program for multiple riders for a given night's bill. Some clubs already have Sixty Twos but they don't see as much use just because of the Pro-Link compatibility of Pio. Thus, SL-4, hands down. Many of these clubs have squandered thousands on timecards when all they had to do was wait. Of course, no one knew that back then, but it doesn't make cash burnt any more appealing to club owners that typically have very limited equipment budgets (most of the money goes into promotions) especially since the industry seems to be stalling and possibly will start to implode due to the bubble.

Giving compatibility to, what is by far, the most common piece of installed equipment is a huge evolution. The steps leading up to it should have been more carefully thought out.

the clarity and quality of this statement, combined with the other clearly concise arguments you've given means you are not qualified to be a dj.

Stop and do something else right now. like tax law. or maybe civil engineer. you are far to smart to have to deal with dj bs.

this is just what happens to us. dj's don't protest, they just deal with hand dealt them.

its that whole ignorance is bliss thing irl.

while you are smart enough to know i was being highly patronizing, don't take it as an insult.

but ..........

if you are really worried about clubs and club installs. clubs should be able to have more than one mixer on board if they are worried about tech riders or have a local sound guy/business to have one to rent within 24-48 hrs.



how many clubs or people are going to buy 2 phono inputs and not lose them or trash them over the course of club or personal use.




Very rarely is an average club going to buy a mixer and put a innofader. Everyone knows thats a personal mod. Now some clubs may have a dj as a sound guy and that guy slaps one in, but that would be very rare. In a club there is going to be more usage and most likely rough usage of a xfader than at home. hence needing the magnetic faders. So IMO if you are going to say hey i need a mixer with serato, and you get the SRT, you are guaranteed that its serato compatible for everyone that has serato dj installed.

If you get a 900nxs, what if the other users dont have the club kit? well you're right back to using a serato box and having a card for traktor.




so its a matter of timing. like that never happens to anyone. a year and half after a product comes out? or that doesnt happen to people that buy a iphone 5 and a 5s comes out 2.5 months later. it happens and to think it wont continue to happen or that consumers need something in turn is nice thinking, but prob wont happen. WIth technology moving at this pace its kind of hard to expect it.




who knows what this is supposed to mean.



thats on the clubs, not serato or pioneer or rane.



if they could have thought it out and knew it was going to happen, it would have been done in the first place. hindsight--->20/20, that whole thing?

You realize a lot of installs are limited not by also space, meaning they need a one in all solution?



What does this have to do with anything? Of course these are going to go in professional installs, that's not the point. No professional installers are going to pick up a 900SRT for the phono inputs or x-fader, either. These features do not really benefit any type of user.



Actually, the big advantage, and this is if they bought an SL-4, is seamless handovers through use of USB A-B for mixing back to back. But even this feature is mitigated slightly as doing a handover using installed CDJs ran THRU is a pretty common practice if two users are on a 900NXS.

Actually, if users don't have the club kit, you know what they'll do? What they're probably doing anyway - just using PROLINK. It's not going to be them getting an SL4 to use so they don't have to have the Club Kit, because most clubs don't have one.



You really got hung up on this, didn't you? I already pointed out this isn't an issue of technological obsolescence. If the 900SRT was different than the 900NXS, you'd have a point. If Pioneer partnered and released a new industry standard 1000NXS which was certified for both platforms, had a new sound card with 2 USB ports etc., then yea, you'd be on the money. I'm honestly interested: what about your analogy not being analogous is confusing?



No, it is on the manufacturer, too. Your consumer has a limited budget. That is why you don't just charge $10,000 for a mixer, even though there wouldn't be anything competitive. If you waste your customer's money, the customer may indeed just be SOL, but it also weakens your brand's image when you release future products.



No one said anyone would know. What you're suggesting is ridiculous and tantamount to saying "we can't know the future so we may as well just not plan anything." That's absurd. The similarity between the hardware and the decision made should have raised someone's eyebrows somewhere, because it certainly raised a lot of users in Oct 2013 when they said "Hey, this is just a 900NXS with blue lights. Why are you releasing this? What does this mean for the 900NXS?" Part of staying ahead of the curve is asking yourselves these types of questions.

The other option is they could have stayed loyal to their SL2/3/4, 900SRT user base and said "We won't release 900NXS support, we'll wait until the next generation club standard Pioneer products." That would be investing in your brand.

Not supporting the main club standard is "investing in your brand"?

Oh please ;-)

You do realise that current rekordbox dj's now see the opportunity to bring their laptop to the club, with bigger music collections than your average usb, and then get a lower end controller for practice/prep at home?

It is, in an ironic way. While it's probably true that this is going to be worth more, financially, than not implementing the product, what does it say for goodwill to customers when the package is retroactively added effectively eliminating the need for a previously premium product?

Well, thats just it, you think the need for the SRT is not there, I disagree... ;-)

i said the same thing. and thats what i wanted and what was available. i knew the nexus had been out for several years, and clearly this was made for serato and didnt expect pioneer to never make another mixer. at the same time, i liked what was on board for the 2000$ price tag. If i had bought a nexus, i would have still had to pick up a sl2 at minumum(3-400 used) and a innofader(100-150 depending which one). WHICH IS THE SAME PRICE AS A SRT.

If i had the nexus, i could use traktor. which i never use. and i have an a10 box. so thats not a plus.



thats ridiculous. they wouldnt charge 10k for a mixer because it would not sell. manufacturers have to sell the products to stay in business.

and if you don't like pioneer products, why not don't buy them? if you feel like this is some major outrage and pioneer is fleecing customers with mixers that are not nice to consumers pockets or djs, why not recommend sound installers to use another brand of mixer?

you are also not taking into account licensing agreements between NI, Pioneer and Serato.

no one knows those details but most everyone knows that those type agreements last for a certain time period. who knows if the 900 nxs was set to be ONLY a traktor mixer for say 3 years. Or if the SRT has a similar deal. CLearly the sound card can be made to use traktor or serato, so its not compatibility. Since NI's own product line, esp mixers, have started there has been no pioneer and traktor products.

all im saying is that you are missing a bigger picture other than its some bad mgmt by serato or some conspiracy to keep club owners broke.

^^ This.
End of last year, soundguy at one my reciendcies asked what to get to replace the worn out A&H. I told him either 900SRT or the 64. Soundguy wanted to close off the back connectors , and decided on the 64. Great mixer, and very nice whenever we play back-to-back. Have the usb and line level RCA routed out for easy connection too.

Appreciate the diversity, as I see djm mixers almost everywhere else I go.

www.youtube.com

rl grime doesnt look too pissed about not getting the club kit while he destroys at fabric on a DJM 900 SRT.

I'm actually happy about the Club Kit. I plan on purchasing it so I can plug and play into the club's (or party's) existing nexus setup. Think of how many more peeps just like me are going to do the same. If you ask me, this was a smart move by Serato. Not to mention all of the A&H users that they'll be drawing away from Traktor. I suppose it could be argued that they should have done this from the start, rather than release the 900srt, but we've already established that the 900srt offers more than a typical 900nxs does. So, it's not as though you SRT adopters got totally screwed.

[quoteIf i had bought a nexus, i would have still had to pick up a sl2 at minumum(3-400 used) and a innofader(100-150 depending which one). WHICH IS THE SAME PRICE AS A SRT.

If i had the nexus, i could use traktor. which i never use. and i have an a10 box. so thats not a plus.

You just missed the point you just made - if you had bought an SL-2 then the release of the club kit, would have you spending money for no reason.

That you own an A10/6 interface and don't choose to use traktor is your own perogative.

Again, off the shelf, side by side, isn't the issue. Many users *ditched* their 900NXS for the 900SRT out of loyalty to Serato. The release of the club kit, while obviously needed, is a bit of a headache. Many users similarly bought an SL4 for their Nexus so they could use Serato. This is also a bit of a headache though it's less problematic as the SL4 would provide plug in play on [i]installed[\i] equipment of any type plus dual USB for changeover.



They could (and should) if it had $10k worth of features that no other manufacturer could provide at a better cost. The point is that the cost of these mixers is built into the the exclusivity of the licensing boundaries which is artificial not a result of technological limitations. That being said, the asking price for products with value based on the licensing in the future is going to be affected by this.

For example, what do you think the release of the Denon DS1 will do to SL2/3/4 prices? What are consumers/vendors going to do (rhetorical) since we have no information if there might be a DS3 or DS4 on the way? Will Denon/Numark be the only players?



It has nothing to do with the mixers themselves, but rather, with the licensing agreements between companies.



No one said there was a conspiracy, but you are right about there being no public information about licensing contracts and the like. That is the entire point of the thread. There is no information. It would be one thing if someone made a bad choice with known information or information that could be reasonably deduced. It's another to be blindsided by new devlopments. While new developments are exciting and needed (Club Kit is long overdue), there has to be consideration for what it does for branding.

The example above about the potential non-Rane sound interfaces is perfect. Maybe SL4 sales will slow down because users are a anticipating a cheaper interface coming on the market and affecting prices. Maybe slowed sales will convince Serato there is no licensing money in expanding the non-Rane interfaces, when in fact, it's just users holding onto their dollar so they don't get burned. Who knows, but when there is low transparency, this kind of stuff can happen.

All I'm saying is that while there is a business upside to keeping contracts and negotiations private, there's also a cost, particularly when arbitrary restrictions are involved. The same thing that gives you an advantage over your competitor keeps your consumer in the dark. Look at NI: there is no support, not does it look like there will be, for the XDJ-1000. Why not? No one knows and so therefore, their customers can't do anything but take an uncalculated risk to purchase one.

I appreciate your thoughts and feedback on my ideas. I do think you bring up some good counter-points. I am *not* disappointed in the 900SRT as a product itself, I'm disappointed in the way it's release and the release of the club kit were times and executed.

Summarily, I think I will say this in conclusion: a new model for software licensing I think could benefit both consumers and Serato.

I have said on numerous occasions that a subscription based model (along with the optional $$ XPacs) would solve a lot of problems and would help everything move to an open standard where equipment support and development becomes more global. Use whatever you want and pay Serato for the software.

Even $100-300 (just throwing it out there) a year is nothing compared to what the average working DJ spends on record pools; I spend over $100 a month between Late Night, DMS, and DJCity. Most DJs spend $600+ a year on insurance if you gig with you own gear at all or play places that don't have liability policies.

I think just paying for the product straight up rather than doing the bundling with hardware is much preferable. At least it would seem.

I think you definitely have some good points too, it's still early in the DVS game as far as protocols for releases and what info hits the street. I would say that the last 5 years for all software and even hardware companies has moved much faster than the previous 5 and it may continue to move at a rapid pace. An example of what I mean is look at the amount of OS upgrades that apple has done, Mavericks to Yosemite was around a year, compared to the past when it was 2 years. Pioneer dropped the djm 600 in 98 til the dj 800 didn't come til 06 and the 700 in o8. Now the 900/nxs/srt and 2000 have dropped less than halfway thru a decade. You have to just go with a product now and learn it and just accept it. If something with colored pads or new fx comes out, you don't need it. Could you save a few bucks, maybe, but I still didn't like the 900nxs without the faders and serato. Even now I'd rather just have and srt and some boxes for switching than having to deal with nexus and club kit. I think club kit is great but who knows if the 900nxs you play on even has a firmware update for it to work ? There's so much that can go wrong, much like the days of people not upgradinng their software and trying to use ttm57 that didn't have firmware updates. Personally I thought the sticker on an updated 900nxs was a bit steep, maybe 1-200 usd, but I've had 0 problems with the srt and using the srt the srt and would highly recommend it for club use.

I recently purchased the Pioneer DJM-900SRT and have since been informed about the Club Kit release for the DJM-900NXS etc. Out of interest I've wanted to follow any forum threads to get up to speed with the possible pro's & cons and the effect this could have on my investment... I've read through the entire thread and have to say that it's been very interesting to hear peoples points of view and concerns.

However there is one burning question/point that hasn't been considered and is the one that is my biggest concern regarding my decision on buying this expensive bit of kit.
Now that the 900NXS & DJM-850 have the ability to do the same job as my new 900SRT it instantly becomes apparent to me that sales of the 900SRT might well fall significantly (possibly but not definately) this in turn will lead to a drop or cease in production.

If this was to happen then support will inevitably be the next element to be phased out as it always does with discontinued/obsolete products... Surely this would ultimately mean that firmware, drivers & updates needed to keep the 900SRT compatable with Apples future OS X upgrades could come to an unexpected halt rendering my investment a very bad decision.

Has anyone considered this possibility, and more so is there anyone from Serato that can guarantee that this will not happen... I'd really like to be assured about this issue as otherwise I'd rather consider selling mine whilst it has some value before the s**t hits the fan.

BpmForce

I would assume that Pioneer comes out with a new flag ship this fall so both mixer will probably end up out of production by next year.

with no soundcard a good djm 800 is going for 8-900. if anything its gonna hit that for another 100-200 of depreciation.

900 nexus/900 srt should stay above $1000 (USD) used depending on condition. IMO the next pioneer will be too expensive and there will be a ton of people that want and 900 nexus/srt for 1000-1500-2000$ less that whatever pioneer decides to run out. A 2 soundcard mixer from Pioneer would be somewhere around 22-2800. Even on a 1 channel mixer, pioneer has never gone down in price from old mixer to the next mixer..





not sure how you think serato is going to guarantee something that may or may not happen in advance of something else happening or not happening.

@ Mr.Goodkat
Thanks for the reply to my post.





I had to read over your last comment as quoted above, it's a bit of a tongue twister lol.

Basically I'm concerned as I bought a pair of Pioneer CDJ2000's when they first launched
and so long as they remained the most up to date CDJ model Pioneer were happy to be updating CDJ firmware & Rekordbox software. As soon as they'd bought out the 2000NXS model support for the CDJ2000 was dropped instantly and may as well be obsolete.
I paid out a lot of money for these and just because a more advanced model arrives I strongly believe that Pioneer should also have a team dedicated to improving and providing
continued support for previous models.

Maybe I should be taking this up with pioneer but never mind that now, my point is and I hope you can this is that although it's inevitable Pioneer & Serato will continue to keep upgrading equipment, that in no way justifies that either company should automatically drop support for any of they're previous models which we all paid good money for & therefore should expect support to be continued for as much as the new models.
The value of my 2 well looked after CDJ-2000's has probably been halved because the new models are all the companies now appear to care about.

I'd simply like to be given peace of mind in knowing that the Serato sound card within my mixer will always be compatible to use in the light of Apple or Microsoft relentlessly bringing out new operating systems, I don't see this point as being difficult to comprehend and also don't see the argument as being unreasonable.

If Pioneer & Serato fail to keep updating the relevant mixer firmware to ensure that all the mixer functions keep working then I for sure will be one very unhappy bunny, and I don't believe what I'm saying is unreasonable.

Maybe you were suggesting that I shouldn't be concerned about this until it happens, well this might be a lot sooner than expected now that the 900SRT is virtually no different to the substantially cheaper 900NXS apart from a small handful of average features.

BmpForce

My personal opinion is that the 24bit technology in the SRT/NXS will be the standard for a long time, as was the x86 processor architecture in computer. Nearly all interfaces on the market use the same design with small variances here and there. That's not to say the value won't be degraded by being supplanted by things like the Club Kit or a new generation 2 mixer, but I don't think the sound card technology will be changing significantly in the near future. My point is, firmware support won't be difficult to keep up with across the board, as functionally, there isn't much difference across all these mixers, exception being the DJM-2000/NXS and the SVM-1000.

One thing I can say I really miss on the djm 900NXS-2 is FX tempo sync.
The 900nxs' are pretty sluggish at figuring out the bpm so having it use Serato's bpm would be a big help.
That and post fader fx is a pretty big omission as well.

I'd really like to simplify my setup now that I've paid for the nxs2 with the ability to plug your laptop directly into it, but when all it does is act like my SL3 box, it's not worth shelling out more money for the Club Kit.