Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

Why is Serato so weak at tag writing?

DJ CAPRO 7:37 PM - 8 June, 2014
This has been something on my mind for years but it seems like a bigger problem lately. I organize by genre of music and have 3 drives to hold everything ranging from 70 bpm up to 190 bpm. I use iTunes, run it through Mixed In Key and then Serato to sort everything into folders (based of smartfolders that identify genre tags).

Although it has been a problem for some music in the past, it seems like some mp3s just do not allow their tags to be overwritten by iTunes or Serato. Something that has a genre tagged as 'Other' will stay like that unless you actually reconvert the mp3s in iTunes, making the process of organizing music a real headache.

I know there are lots of "pro" tagging apps out there that overwrite all fields but I'm wondering why this isn't doable in Serato. iTunes I understand because they care more about other silly things...

Anyways, hoping I can get some response and that my issue is a shared one. Everything about Serato DJ is great which is one of the reasons I haven't mentioned this before now.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 8:28 PM - 8 June, 2014
Hey DJ CAPRO,

ID3 tags are a funny thing, and sometimes don't conform to the ID3 tag standard. If you have particular problem files, you could open a help request and have one of the Support Team take a look at it. Is there a particular place you are sourcing your MP3 files from which have this problem?

Cheers,
Michael.
Rob J 3:32 AM - 9 June, 2014
DJ CAPRO,

I pride myself on clean, consistent ID3 information in Serato.

Michael is right. I've seen strange behavior in ID3 tags a few times. One thing I do is use ID3 Remover (a free Windows application) to clear all ID3 tags prior to bringing a track into Serato (and there are many other ways to accomplish this easily). ID3 Remover lets you clear ID3 data on multiple files simultaneously. When I encode a track to MP3, I make no ID3 tags, either. I know you like to run your tracks through MIK to get keys, and erasing ID3 data may not be easy or practical for you (killing your track key information).

Believe it or not, I now use Serato itself to manage the ID3 data I care about having on tracks that I DJ with, and of course, I keep current and multiple backups of all tracks and Serato library information/files.

I have never had a problem since I started tagging my own files. Actually, for many years, I didn't even use ID3 tags at all, but the organizational advantages in Serato changed that for me.

Good luck!

- Rob J
Sounds By JB 6:35 AM - 9 June, 2014
DJ CAPRO,

I don't see how Serato actually should be a full blown id3 editor, that's a specificity on its own. Better yet, it should keep its fingers of my tags :P

my process and tools:

- Buy or rip on FLAC
- Run through Mixed In Key
- Run through Jaikoz Audio Tag Editor to check all the tags, and set/fix the tags that I care for
- Use Jaikoz (and Excel) to place [key]-[energy level]-[bpm] in my comment field for easy sorting in Serato (and because it still can't read keys from FLAC)
- Use Jaikoz to rename the files and folder to a standard used in my whole library
- Add to library and scan with Serato

This way all my tags, folder- and filenames are always consistent.
DJ CAPRO 1:11 PM - 9 June, 2014
Thanks for the response guys, and sorry for the thread name. I just assumedit should've feasible to have Serato overwrite any ID3 tags, at least as an option.

With regards to what files I'm seeing the problems with they are usually direct from the label, either via free download code from a vinyl purchase or as a promo.

I think there is a way to clear out ID3 info in iTunes but I recall that also wiping out all cue point and beatgrid info as well... I'm not sure if there's another Mac tag editor out there but I assume this would be the same.

I'll do some more digging, thanks for the feedback
deejdave 2:58 AM - 10 June, 2014
I never seem to have any issues unless I am dealing with FLAC in which case sometimes SOME of the fields will be unchangeable. What is ALWAYS impossible is leaving a field blank that had something there prior.............................. again ONLY applies to FLAC as I never have any issues with MP3's.
DJ CAPRO 5:25 PM - 10 June, 2014
Looks like iTunes will let you convert selected mp3s to an ID3 version of your choice, so that's what I'll do moving forward inbetween importing them to iTunes and running through Mixed in Key
Deejae Smooth 8:10 PM - 10 June, 2014
www.mp3tag.de

This is about the best tag editor you'll find. It's Windows only but I used a Wine program to make a Mac version so I could use it on my Macbook Pro.
R-Dub 12:53 AM - 11 June, 2014
i use Tag & Rename. Perfect tags. plus you can drag and drop artwork from goggle (image search results).
DJKentaa 7:18 PM - 11 June, 2014
Tag program like tag n rename exist for Mac?
deejdave 7:28 PM - 11 June, 2014
Yes just enter tag editor into yahoo and watch the magic happen. FYI you can locate other things you need by using a similar method.
Deejae Smooth 9:12 PM - 11 June, 2014
You could use something like this to create a Mac app version of your windows program:
winebottler.kronenberg.org
Joe Fresh 5:12 AM - 1 December, 2014
Media Rage. It's old but it still works like a charm.

www.chaoticsoftware.com
WarpNote 8:03 PM - 2 December, 2014
deejdave, what mac tag editor are you using? Im using media rage myself, btw...
jmims 10:48 PM - 2 December, 2014
tagr for mac best i've used
www.macupdate.com
DJ Baby Boy 10:54 AM - 3 December, 2014
The process I use might be able to help you Capo ... I first take the downloaded files and run them though MIK then import them into itunes into a specific crate labeled ***Must Label Properly from there I select the videos of the imported and change type to music video from home video (itunes default) after that I sort by genre and if there is any tracks that either have "other" or " (Blank) " I will select them all and change the tag to happy hardcore that way there is a tag there for serato to change properly since I've had the same issue ... I then close iTunes and open SDJ/SSL whichever is your preference at the moment proceed to edit tags to your liking ... Close SDJ/SSL open itunes select all files in the ***Must Label Properly crate and using dougs scripts perform Refresh Selected Tags and call it a day after I verify that all the changes have taken place which I usually just check the Genre field since that's the one I had issues with in the past

This process may or may not help you and to some may seem very long and un needed but it works well for me and my work flow

Another great program that I've used and enjoy using is MetaBliss from the same company that makes Mixed In Key
Joe Fresh 7:55 PM - 3 December, 2014
Tagr looks awesome, might have to try it out.
Mr. Goodkat 9:59 PM - 3 December, 2014
i always notice, if i tag in serato, sometimes it doesnt show in itunes until i play the song or rescan mp3s, even then it may not come up in Itunes.

it works the same way if tagging in itunes to serato, except when i scan Id3 tags or play in SSL or SDJ. Seems like SSL got better an was fine by 2.5.

the other thing is say i dl a mp3 that has 'djrecordpool' in the comments. If i erase that in SDJ, and put in 'tech house'(i sort by comment), then close SDJ and reopen, 'djrecordpool' is still in the comment. SO if i delete the comment area and then rescan that id3 tag, it will pop back in.

just always thought that was weird, but im used to it by now.
DJ Baby Boy 7:35 AM - 4 December, 2014
Mr. Goodkat after tagging in Serato make sure to refresh the tags using dougs scripts then the files in itunes will show the changes ... After you do that and open serato again simply clicking analyze files will "Re-Analyze" the files which you just changed and update them to the proper tags

As far as Tagr I really feel like I just wasted $10 since it only seems to work well for pulling id3 tags for full albums which my DJ library is anything but full albums ... It won't pull for individual songs ... If it should be pulling id3 info no matter please someone let me what I'm doing wrong ... For now I'll just keep using Serato for editing tags since that method has been working for me
jmims 4:03 PM - 4 December, 2014
Quote:
As far as Tagr I really feel like I just wasted $10 since it only seems to work well for pulling id3 tags for full albums which my DJ library is anything but full albums ... It won't pull for individual songs

Yeah you are definitely doing something wrong. I have not one album in my library just all individual tracks and I have them all tagged correctly with tagr. This is what you have to do before it goes into Serato / Itunes.
DJ Baby Boy 11:03 PM - 4 December, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
As far as Tagr I really feel like I just wasted $10 since it only seems to work well for pulling id3 tags for full albums which my DJ library is anything but full albums ... It won't pull for individual songs

Yeah you are definitely doing something wrong. I have not one album in my library just all individual tracks and I have them all tagged correctly with tagr. This is what you have to do before it goes into Serato / Itunes.


Sorry allow me to be a little more specific ... the discogs integration only seems to work for full albums or for tracks that already have (damn near) perfect tags to begin with and even then I can only do a single artist at a time and nothing outside of a single album ... for me if it's just to be used to edit id3 tags there are far better programs out there such as meta bliss and itunes itself but once again if I'm just doing something way wrong please try to explain it to me because I do like the thought of the discogs integration to pull art and year so I don't have to look them up each time
dj_soo 2:56 AM - 5 December, 2014
I find that if you're using serato and itunes, you have to essentially reload the file in I tunes for the the changes made in Serato to take place. just playing the file will work, but if you want to mass scan your files, select all the files you want updated, get info, choose a field you don't use (like composer) and add a space and hit enter.
DJ Baby Boy 3:55 AM - 5 December, 2014
@DJ Soo you don't even have to do that anymore there is a script from Doug's scripts that will refresh the selected tags eliminating the need to play every track that you edited in Serato ... After doing that though you will still need to either hit the analyze files tab in Serato or play/load said tracks in Serato in order for them to show the updates to the tags
Joe Fresh 4:55 AM - 8 December, 2014
or click the rescan ID3 tags button in the Files panel
Name already taken 6:40 PM - 15 November, 2018
Hi, I have started another thread related to tagging issues with Flac files. Please check it out. Any constructive input you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

(hopefully someday serato Flac will work properly, but until then maybe we can combine our knowledge to best work around these issues)

Link to thread - serato.com
YZ 7:01 PM - 15 November, 2018
dude you're trying way too hard and you're simply not going to get any traction as a try hard. bringing up posts from 2014 now? how desperate are you? Go practice or something.
The Return of Dj Sparky 7:22 PM - 15 November, 2018
2 possible reasons why tag writing is so bad,

the developers are not capable of making this function very well,

or else the big wigs will not allocate development time to resolve it,

i'd say its a mixture of both, sure look how well relocate lost files works, 6 years nearly and they cannot convert an app to android, and lets not bring serato video into it
Frozone 11:47 AM - 16 November, 2018
I use Kid 3 Audio Tagger - kid3.sourceforge.io, Works well, batch processing etc
Name already taken 5:35 PM - 16 November, 2018
Quote:
2 possible reasons why tag writing is so bad,

the developers are not capable of making this function very well,

or else the big wigs will not allocate development time to resolve it,

i'd say its a mixture of both, sure look how well relocate lost files works, 6 years nearly and they cannot convert an app to android, and lets not bring serato video into it


I can unfortunately only conclude that it is the latter (unless of course the programmers are incompetent - which I don't think is the case) as so many other software do these tasks flawlessly. Sure there are different tag versions, but if they were to be transparent on which tagging version worked for which format it would be a non-issue for those adhering to that tagging version. I would say sadly that the company is more focused on bringing in new customers over making current ones happy with the usability of the software. Serato should really take an example from Ableton who is able to make their user base happy with the best functionality possible while still attracting new customers. See I just advertised for them (I do not promote Serato via word of mouth because of their lack of a good business philosophy and shortcomings in the basic functionality of the software). The sad thing is if they were to go through the due diligence of optimizing the basic functionality of the software they would get free word of mouth advertising and gain new customers that way. Maybe someday they will learn, we can only hope.....
Name already taken 5:37 PM - 16 November, 2018
Quote:
I use Kid 3 Audio Tagger - kid3.sourceforge.io, Works well, batch processing etc


I use Tag&Rename = great software

Unfortunately Serato does not have the basic functionality of reading half of the tag fields in the software from Flac files at all......
Joe Fresh 7:16 PM - 18 November, 2018
Some modern Mac apps to check out for MP3 tagging and organizing -

Metadatics - itunes.apple.com
Meta - www.nightbirdsevolve.com
RR437T 7:27 PM - 18 November, 2018
Quote:
Some modern Mac apps to check out for MP3 tagging and organizing -

Metadatics - itunes.apple.com
Meta - www.nightbirdsevolve.com


iTunes doesn't support flac.
RR437T 7:32 PM - 18 November, 2018
Quote:
I use Kid 3 Audio Tagger - kid3.sourceforge.io, Works well, batch processing etc


I think that one is just for Linux. I've never seen it on mac or windows. It is very good, though. I actually like Puddletag a little better.
Frozone 7:34 PM - 18 November, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
I use Kid 3 Audio Tagger - kid3.sourceforge.io, Works well, batch processing etc


I think that one is just for Linux. I've never seen it on mac or windows. It is very good, though. I actually like Puddletag a little better.



I use it on MAC...
Frozone 7:35 PM - 18 November, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
I use Kid 3 Audio Tagger - kid3.sourceforge.io, Works well, batch processing etc


I think that one is just for Linux. I've never seen it on mac or windows. It is very good, though. I actually like Puddletag a little better.



Linux binaries (64-bit) kid3-3.6.2-Linux.tgz
Windows binaries kid3-3.6.2-win32.zip
macOS binaries
64-bit (standard) kid3-3.6.2-Darwin.dmg
32-bit (for old systems) kid3-3.6.2-Darwin-i386.dmg
Android package kid3-3.6.2-android.apk
alec.tron 9:05 PM - 18 November, 2018
"Why is Serato so weak at tag writing?"
'cause most people, especially those in the DJ faction, are shite when it comes to data management, and practices & conventions of metadata itself is black magic for many still, even the main developers behind Serato/Traktor/RB who, as their programs prove, have failed for years to have their metadata reads/writes function according to the files/container specifications....
So what you see in Serato (as well as Traktor & RB, who both suck a**e when it comes to metadata handling) is a company not caring about it as there's not enough knowledge and/or pressure from its' user base.
Simple as that unfortunately, but highly infuriating for people who know what metadata is capable of, and how it should/can be used... and having thei 'professional' programs fail to adhere to well defined file conventions.
c.
RR437T 9:07 PM - 18 November, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I use Kid 3 Audio Tagger - kid3.sourceforge.io, Works well, batch processing etc


I think that one is just for Linux. I've never seen it on mac or windows. It is very good, though. I actually like Puddletag a little better.



Linux binaries (64-bit) kid3-3.6.2-Linux.tgz
Windows binaries kid3-3.6.2-win32.zip
macOS binaries
64-bit (standard) kid3-3.6.2-Darwin.dmg
32-bit (for old systems) kid3-3.6.2-Darwin-i386.dmg
Android package kid3-3.6.2-android.apk


Thanks. I don't know how I missed that one. I'm installing it on Windows as we speak.
Name already taken 11:45 PM - 18 November, 2018
Quote:
"Why is Serato so weak at tag writing?"
'cause most people, especially those in the DJ faction, are shite when it comes to data management, and practices & conventions of metadata itself is black magic for many still, even the main developers behind Serato/Traktor/RB who, as their programs prove, have failed for years to have their metadata reads/writes function according to the files/container specifications....
So what you see in Serato (as well as Traktor & RB, who both suck a**e when it comes to metadata handling) is a company not caring about it as there's not enough knowledge and/or pressure from its' user base.
Simple as that unfortunately, but highly infuriating for people who know what metadata is capable of, and how it should/can be used... and having thei 'professional' programs fail to adhere to well defined file conventions.
c.


"Amen Brother!" Dook-dook-doosh-a-dook-a-dook-doosh!

Well put. I really thought the software "re2" aka "rapid evolution" was heading in a great direction 10 years ago until the developer stopped working on it. We can only hope one DJ software will lead in this way someday and the others will follow suit. Until then we can keep opening support tickets and having them shut down after the dev's tell us "it's been logged for a possible fix in a future update" and then ten years later open another support tickets to have the bug logged for a possible fix in a future update. Oh yeah, we can also post in the forums about our issues so the over-opinionated trolls with horribly bad taste in music can lay into us about how "mp3's sound as good as Flac" and how nobody cares about metadata, that we should switch software, and because we want file tagging support we must be autistic (and some of us may be which is not a bad thing, though prejudice is).
DJ Marv the Maverick 11:46 PM - 18 November, 2018
+1 on Kid3

I observed Serato struggles with FLAC files

Change a tag other e.g. genre or comments and it reverts back to the original stuff that it contains

I run my FLAC files through Kid3 before adding to Serato 👨🏾‍💻
Name already taken 11:53 PM - 18 November, 2018
Quote:
+1 on Kid3

I observed Serato struggles with FLAC files

Change a tag other e.g. genre or comments and it reverts back to the original stuff that it contains

I run my FLAC files through Kid3 before adding to Serato 👨🏾‍💻[/quo

Unfortunately Serato does not read the "remixer", "label" and "autogain" tags whatsoever for Flac.

The "comment", "composer" and "grouping" tags are really the only not-already used tags you can add further info to (less if you use these for "rating" or "label" data of course)