They may look good on paper, but with the fiasco around A-Rod, the clubhouse will be a circus...

Stats and team chemistry are 2 whole diff realms. Think they are a little slack on chemistry at the moment.

Hopefully they can get past it, cuz if not, gonna be a long season...

Sox on the other hand...BALLLLIN!

Red Sox Pitching Staff > Yankee's Pitching Staff
Red Sox Bull Pen > Yankee's Bullpen

just sayin'

Booooooooooo YANKEES!!!

Yankees = 3rd best team in AL East behind Boston and Tampa! :)

tig: I think we've been playing without any real chemistry since 2001. Honestly, I thought that the whole ARod thing was going to be worse. It has been pretty quite lately though...Maybe because the season didn't start yet?
Lets see if the sox can "Ball" for a full season without Manny this time.

Notorious BKS: Seriously!?
CC Sabathis, AJ Burnett, Joba, Petite, Wang....AND Mo >>> Red Sax pitching.

-my 2 cents

So why's that chemistry problem going to be solved this year? Don't tell me Joe G > Joe T for that locker room...that's just not true.

i will not be surprised when Joba, CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett all get hurt

I never said that it will be solved...just saying that we've played like that since around 2001

Personally, I never liked Joe G as a player nor as the right manager for that locker room. He didn't do too bad last year so I hope he comes through this year.

lol..He said "Petite" hahahaha...

You also got to remember, in most cases players who receive such HUGE contracts ie. C.C. are under immense pressure to perform, that in itself I see being a problem he will fact this year...

Its like Lowell...dude has this monster season 2 seasons ago in his contract year, hits 315, 30 HRs, and 120 RBI...we re-sign him for big money (big money for a pretty old 3rd baseman) and dude kinda sucked last year. DOnt get me wrong he's my fave plpayer on the team, but when it comes to contracts and BIG money pressue gets to guys...

Sox in my opinion have the strongest middle relief and strongest closing pitcher in the game right now. Thats where the Yankees will fail...they better hope their starts avg at least 6-7 innings every game or they will be in trouble.

They lose Arbeu, Giambi, and A-Rod...so they def are gonna to be struggling a little more on the offensive side this season

LOL...what was I thinking?

Anyway...Good points but I think the real pressure is playing in New York and not so much the money for CC. Lets not get into past pitchers who were already making money but couldn't handle NY.

Won't argue so much about your middle relief but will on the closer. I think most people would rather have Mo close a game than Papelbum...my bad Papelbon.

We lose out on a few big bats but don't forget the Mark Teixeira pickup. So it shouldn't be THAT bad.

i fart in the yankee's general direction.

north, from here.

Yankees pitching is vastly overrated. Sabathia has thrown 1659.3 innings in his career and he's only entering his age 28 season. That's bad. Since 1975, only 6 pitchers have thrown more innings in their age 20-27 season: one had to become a closer (Eckersley), one is one of the best pitchers ever (Maddux), and four broke down (Gooden, Saberhagen, Witt, Valenzuela) soon thereafter. Add in that he doesn't have a good body to stay healthy and I'd worry - and, oh yeah, he sucks against the Red Sox and is worse at Fenway.

Pettitte (that's how you spell it, by the way) is a league-average pitcher at this point - had a 98 ERA+ last year, a 110 the year before. He's gonna get you 200 innings (probably), which is valuable unto itself (see: Tim Wakefield).

Burnett is, well, I wouldn't trust him to be healthy either. 3 of the last 5 seasons he has spent significant time on the DL.

Wang hasn't been able to stay healthy either - freak injuries or not - missing significant time in two seasons. And, guys who don't get a lot of strikeouts tend to trend down in time. Wang is looking to be an exception to the rule, but guys who don't miss bats just don't do as well - they usually have freakishly good BABIPs which will often even out in the long haul. As I said, though, Wang looks like an exception to that rule since he's got such ridiculous GB rates.

Joba is an interesting case. BP projects him to be a terrific pitcher this year, which is entirely possible. I think he probably ends up outpitching Sabathia and Wang this year with a high-2's/low-3's ERA and competes for the Cy Young Award.

Mo's still the best closer ever, but one day his age will catch up to him. Dude is entering his age 39 season, and he can't keep putting up sub-2.00 ERAs forever.

Meanwhile, the biggest problem the Yankees have is their age of their hitting. Melky has shown to be nothing more than an AAAA type of player. Cano regressed into a hole last year. Derek Jeter is now entering his age 35 season. The man with the $300M contract has a torn labrum and a serious credibility problem due to his steroid use - we all know that steroid users typically don't age well. The outfield consists of a combination of Damon, Matsui, Swisher, Nady, and Brett Gardner (and you never want to count on rookies; see Jacoby Ellsbury). Posada was badly hurt last year and can barely throw to 2nd. Adding Teixeira to replace Giambi helps for sure, but it doesn't change that the offense is rapidly getting older. The Yankees scored the 7th most runs in the AL last year and replaced one piece. That's not really a pathway to success unless you allow 150 runs less, which isn't likely.

If you couldn't tell, I'm a pretty big stat guy.

dj lad is my new favorite person on this board

Interesting stats and opinions there lad.

I don't count on stats too much because they can be misleading when it comes to pitchers in particular. See, one can have a loss on paper but it wouldn't say HOW the pitcher got the loss (eg:lack of run support).

People seem to forget that the Yankees have been getting these high priced players to win them championships NOW not 3,4,5 years from now. They've been doing this since 2000. So the CC stat is indeed an interesting one, it's really irrelevant being that he's up for a new contract at/around when he does start breaking down. For now I think he'll survive a few good years. He has never played against Boston or at Fenway as a Yankee so we'll see how it goes.

PETTITTE has a 1 year contract and IS expected to at least pitch 200 innings. Exactly what the Yankees need this year.

Wang doesn't get alot of strikeouts but he does get a lot of grounders which is why I wouldn't pay the SO stat much mind. He does gets injured a lot so I hope he stays healthy this year.

Our OF is suspect no doubt about but it shouldn't be too bad. Our main focus was getting pitching and that's what we did. With good pitching they wouldn't NEED to produce as many runs this year.
Honestly, I'm not worried about Cano because of his weak year. I'll worry about it if he has another one though. We have had a fairly old team for a good amount of years now and still managed to make it to at least the playoffs (except last year). Our main problem wasn't during the season but producing runs during the post season.

No serious baseball mind looks at wins and losses. They're basically useless. I wouldn't ever actually quote a W/L record to determine a good pitcher.

As for Sabathaia...it's not irrelevant.

-Witt threw 220 innings at age 28, then failed to throw a combined 200 innings the rest of his career. Done.
-Valenzuela threw 196.7 at age 28, then had an ERA+ over 100 twice the rest of his career, with most of his ERA+ numbers in the 80-90 range. Bad.
-Gooden's interesting because he also threw 218 innings at age 19. He threw 200 innings at age 28, then never threw 200 innings again, and he missed most of 1994 and all of 1995. Of course, Doc also had his own non-injury related problems.
-Saberhagen threw 97 innings at age 28, then bounced around the majors, posting ERAs of 3.29, 2.74, 4.18, 6.58, 3.96, and 2.95. Not bad at all, but those were in a combined 789.6 innings over 6 seasons. If you only get that many innings out of CC over the next seasons, he's a HUGE bust.

I'm not saying this is guaranteed to happen to CC. He's shown to be a horse, but he's also had a bunch of bad postseasons, simply because his arm was ridden so hard. My prediction? He has a career that looks more like Dave Stieb (www.baseball-reference.com) than Greg Maddux. Stieb threw four straight 200 inning seasons and then fell apart. If the Yankees can get 200 innings out of CC the next three years and have a fresh CC come October, they'd be in good shape.

I was wrong in my characterization of CC against the Sox - he hasn't sucked - in fact he's been very good; 3.91 ERA in 48.3 IP. But those numbers don't include the postseason; if you do, those go up to 5.06 in 58.6 innings. That looks a lot worse.

As for Wang, the problem he has is that he is incredibly dependant on infield defense. Jeter is a poor defender at best, Cano since losing Bowa has reverted to the lazy ways he had before. Teixeira is a fantastic defender, but first base isn't an important defensive position. A-Rod is very good but he's hurt and he's hurt in a way that will limit his effectiveness when he returns (hip injury). This is bad for Wang. The idea of BABIP is simply that the closer to .290 a pitcher has, the less amount of luck is going into their performance. Want had a .281 BABIP last year, so that's not too bad. In fact, his career is .287. I expect him to get a little worse this year, but not by much or of any fault of his own - the infield defense is going to get worse (Cody Ransom anyone?) and that's going to cause Wang some problems.

As for the line about Yankees getting high-priced players to win them championships since 2000.... well, how has that worked out since 2000?

And thanks, uno seis. Sabrmetrics is a hobby of mine. I'm not even close to being the smartest guy in the room when it comes to them, but I try.

LETS GO METS!!

i can't wait to not watch Baseball Tonight this year. Thank god for MLB Network

I know. I am so very happy for that.

Spoken as a true red sox fan....
The reason I said that about the Yankees was to give you an idea on how the front office has been thinking as of 2000. It's obvious that it hasn't been working. They think about the following year and rarely think about years ahead with regards to the high priced players.

Lad, I started to take you serious until I read "Jeter is a poor defender at best". Now, I know you must have all the stats on his errors and whatever (I seen them too because they had it in our NYPost). BUT Jeters bat makes up for his errors most of the time. See that's why I say don't count too much on those stats. Can you give me the stat on how many games the Yankees have lost due to his errors? Or what about the amount of hits he got THAT night/day when he did make the errors? Next you're going to tell me that Nomar's 2 golden gloves were more valuable than Jeter's 3.

Funny how all of Red Sax nation starting talking this "look at us now" as if you guys were used to winning championships all of these years. Be humble because it wasn't our fault it took the Sax 85+ years to win one.

See those stats on the amount of rings we have compared to the Red Sox (Yeah you knew that one was coming right)?...Stack up some more championships then we can take the red sox a little more serious.

Check these stats out:

Yankees= 26 Championship rings
Boston= 6 Championship rings (1918 they weren't even given rings or pins but a pocket watch...lol)Wasn't that the same cheap owner that traded Ruth to us?
joyofsox.blogspot.com

Yogi Berra has 10 rings by himself alone.

Man, why do Yankee fans always wanna bring up rings??
Is that really all you have to cling onto?

Nobody can deny the Yankees glorious past, but nobody was talking about that, this discussion is geared to the 09 season, that's 2009, not 1909, and going foward, no chemistry = no ring... Just ask Tampa bay or the Knicks

consider why he said jeter was a poor defender. its because its going to affect wang, and he is one of the "horses" on the yanks pitching staff. there's no denying that he had some great offensive years, but his bat is also declining.

Sorry, the Tampa bay/knicks comment refers to payroll... The knicks over the past few years have had some of the highest payroll in the NBA & TB has one of the lowest in MLB, but they had chemistry

BTW fuck the phillies(no blunt, love those)

This is true. So why do they continue to do that? Who was the last all-star the Yankees developed outside of Cano? Posada? Jeter? Rivera? That's really a bad sign when they all debuted in the early-to-mid-90s. The Red Sox developed Papelbon, Youkilis, Pedroia - that's just in last year's game. Or the Rays? Where do you even begin?


Gold Gloves mean shit. Rafael Palmiero won a GG while playing 28 games in the field. It is a stupid award that has no merit. Jeter is, without a doubt, one of the worst defensive shortstops in baseball. The fact they moved a top quality defender to third for him is laughable. Errors are a bad stat since they are entirely dependant on perception - player A may get an error for doing the same thing as player B, who won't get one. I'd rather look at range factor (still a weak stat), UZR, or the +/- ratings done by the people at Fielding Bible. They rank Jeter as a -12 defender, which was 6th worse in baseball last year among SS. Look, Jeter has a good bat at this point but certainly not a great one. He's 35 years old, and he's already a poor defender. He's going to either have to move to the outfield (where he should have moved when A-Rod came over) or he's going to be a corpse by 2011. Jeter's problem isn't errors (although he commits many), it's that he has no range to his left or right. He's got a strong throwing arm but it's only mildly accurate. NOW, considering all of this, YES, he's a weak defender at best. He's still a 300/370/440 hitter, which is very good at shortstop, but he'd be far better served in center field with numbers like that. His range issues would be made nil (he's fast, he just doesn't have lateral range) and he could show off his arm.


Yea, because those Yankees fans were SO humble chanting "NINE-TEEN EIGHT-TEEN". What comes around goes around.


So? How many of those were you alive for? Or your father? I don't talk up the Celtics because they won a bunch of titles in the 50s and 60s. I wasn't around for it. Are you really bragging about something that happened in the 1920s? Just think. "COUNT THAAA RINGGGZZZZ" is just about the dumbest argument ever to make.

GG is entirely a reputation position. There's a reason why the same 6-7 guys win it every year. It is much harder to win a first gold glove than a second one.

As for chemistry, while I think it's important, I think it's overrated.

You know how to do get great clubhouse chemistry? Win fucking baseball games. You win games, your team will be happy as a pig in shit.

OK so Ozzie Smith's 13 consecutive GGs as a SS meant nothing then huh? It was just one huge popularity contest...Come on! How can you say that Jeter should've moved to the outfield?....Now you have really gone mad! LOL...Did I miss something or didn't AROD played that position like a champ considering he never played there before. Cal Ripken adapted well so why can't A-Rod?

I was actually alive for 6 Championships and my pops was around for 10...What about you? Oh wait!

Bragging about rings doesn't mean anything either then right? You do know that they have the most championships than any other team in any other sport right? But that means nothing though...LOL

And the reason they keep signing big bats for these huge ass contracts beats the hell out of me. That's the Steinbrenner way and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Any team with money like the Yanks will do the same. Hell, now that the Sox got a little cash I see them doing the same thing the last few years.

Our problem hasn't been winning games....we win the right amount of games to get us to the playoffs. It's winning THOSE games that killed us. That has nothing to do with chemistry dude. Apparently we have enough chemistry to take us to the playoffs.

Range: Don't get me started on the Mets :)

The point he was making is that Jeter should have been the one to move to 3rd base because at the time, A-Rod was the better defensive shortstop. I don't mean to keep standing up for dj lad, but I get so irritated by all the Jeter fanboyism in the media haha

Yep Posada, Jeter, Rivera gave us 4 WS rings in 5 years....Your point was?

UNO- I'm not a Jeter fanboy I just had to disagree with him on that point. I agreed to most of the stuff he said but his obvious hate for the Yanks is messing with his frame of thinking. Jeter is declining in his defense at 35! When was he allowed to start declining? 45, 55 maybe?

Ozzie Smith is arguably the best defender in baseball history, maybe outside of Brooks Robinson. But guys who play 28 games at the position win it too. That's a HUGE credibility issue regarding the award. Writers get lazy and vote the same guys every year - they're fucking sportswriters, laziness is their #1 priority.

So what if your Dad was alive for 10? What point does this have on anything? What I'm saying is that making a "COUNT THE RINGZZZZZZZZZZZZ" argument is pretty much the most childish thing you can do when talking sports. It detracts from the actual flow of discussion. Luis Sojo has more rings than Barry Bonds and Ted Williams combined. Does that make him a better player? Hell, Derek Jeter has more rings than those two combined - does that make HIM a better player? Absolutely not.

Oh, Jesus. The point is that those three came up over a decade ago. Have you noticed a correlation between the lack of postseason success and a lack of young homegrown players? The best way to win championships in baseball is to grow you own talent and surround it with solid free agents or to trade that talent for players you can control for a long time, either through arbitration or a deal that buys out arbitration and a few free agent years.

The sad part is that while I hate the Yankees, I also really enjoy watching guys like Derek Jeter play. He's a solid ballplayer and a real positive role model for young players. That doesn't change that he hasn't been a good defender in his entire career. I'm not hating on him; I'm simply stating exactly what the facts are - he gets to far less balls hit at him than most players at his position, and when he DOES get there he commits a lot of errors; this isn't hyperbole that I'm spouting here. The problem is that he's declining from being a minus defender to being a minus-minus one and that's a HUGE issue.

+1 Lad..

Jeter has slowly been declining on both the offensive and defensive side...while he doesnt strike out that much, he def has lost the pop he used to once have...
Defensively he's almost as big of a liablity as Lugo is and for a "superstar" thats a pretty big issue...

Also, on the closer front...If Papelbon can develop his splitfinger and use it more effectively, he will be the closer everyone is scared of. K-Rod has his change up and a crazy fastball...which is part of the reason he has such success...Rivera has his Cutter and throws and occassional off speed slider, but with his age he's getting more and more hittable...

Papelbon is still on the come up as a closer and over the next 3 seasons I can easily see him shattering K-Rods saves record in a single season by at least 5 saves.

the saves record is a bunch of crap, nobody should be worried about trying to break it

I dont think he'll be worried, im just sayign I think his talent level and abilities he will be virtually unhittable over the next few seasons...as he pretty much has been

You asked me how many we were around for so I answered your question. Don't get upset when you hear COUNT DA RINGZZZZZZZZ! because it's a fact so live with it...LOL. No seriously, Boston would NEVER rub that into our faces if it was the other way around right? Thank God that would never happen.

Seriously, you bring up good points that I can't argue with but you came across as a big hater trying to discredit the team as a whole.

Can't type out everything I want to say today...busy at work but I'll be back :)


Cody Ransom FTW !!

The whole "count the rings" issue to me is retarded.

Baseball is a totally different game now (last 15) years or so then it was back then in the 30's, 40's and 50's when they dominated the game...1996, 1998-2000 are the only rings I count in this arguement...So in retrospect The Sox have 2 rings in the last 15 years Yankees have 4. Big whoop.

Its like bringing up the Celtics championships and rubbing it in Lakers/Cavs fans faces...makes no sense.

get on the Mets, I know their history, they suck...again, this isn't a contest to see who's team has a more glorious past, i know, i know, nobody in sports can touch the yankees, fine.
just keep in mind, the discussion was about the '09 season, in which the yankees, mets & sox are on pretty even playing fields

^ LOL, yeah now...then in the last month of the season METS will...































































FAIL, FAIL, FAIL...HAHAHA...sorry had to do it

F U tig

My takes:

It always seems that saying Jeter is a poor defender is a popular thing to say. Is he the most awesomest? I don't think anybody other than girls in pink #2 shirts says that, but he is at least more than adequate at the position.

The hoopla surrounding A-Rod seems to be dying down, and while you cant replace his production, it may be a good thing for him and the team to have him out of the picture for a bit.

I love how Sox fans easily dismiss Tex now that the Yankees signed him, when everyone knows there would have been a circle jerk on Yawkey Way if the Sox signed him, and he would be the bestest at everything. Sox fans, please note, I was disappointed when we signed him too, just for the fact I have to hear about the salary thing.

As far as Paps and Mo, I still think overall Mo wins, but Pap is a huuge difference maker, you guys are lucky, when Mo's career is over all of the Joba should be a starting pitcher crew (myself included) will have wished he stayed in the pen. Same thing with Pedroia, if Cano doesn't shape up, you guys have the instant better 2nd baseman.

I'm too tired to type anymore, I'll check back in, I love to talk Yanks/Sox. Gotta call up Comcast for my yearly April cable connection, hopefully this year I won't be able to cancel it so early .

It's not trendy. It's fact. Look, you can either use your eyes or you can look at the numbers. Fielding is a very hard thing to judge with your eyes because there isn't set percentages like batting average or ERA. A guy can make a few spectacular plays during the year, get on sports center, but have awful range and a bad arm, and still win Gold Gloves. Once that happens, they get called "elite defenders", which is hilarious. Fielding analysis is by far the hardest thing to do in sabrmeterics, there's no question there. Every rating system comes out different and has it's strong points and weak points. But the simple fact is that Derek Jeter has poor range. Very poor. So he gets to far less balls than most defenders. If money and ego weren't a fact, Jeter would have been in center field five years ago when A-Rod came over and Bernie was seriously declining.

The A-Rod hoopla will come back once he's healthy again. Trust me on that one. That guy is a walking circus.

I never dismissed Teixerira. Guy is a top defender and a plus plus bat. He immediately makes the infield defense better. I was disappointed to see the Red Sox could not sign him.

Pedroia is already a far better second baseman, both defensively and offensively, than Cano. It's not a "if Cano doesn't shape up" kind of situation, Pedroia is already a far better player simply because he plays very good (not Gold Glove though) defense and his isoOBP is about 20 points higher than Cano's. Basically that mean that Cano is more dependent on his average to get on base. This means that if he isn't hitting .320 or so and instead hits .280, his OBP is only around .310, which is god awful. Cano has more power and more potential as a hitter but he has such poor plate discipline and since Larry Bowa left town, he's regressed in the field and at the plate significantly.

Mo's the best ever. Nuf ced.

Never said Jeter was an elite defender, I just stated that he's more than adequate at the position. I will agree that He probably should've went to CF in 04 Bernie fell off in 03, and I'm a huge Bernie fan. Yes Jeter makes some great plays, and yes his range is poor, we can agree on that.

Not really all to sure on the A-rod bit. He is a walking circus, but the attention has died down, and with him being out again, it will die down more. I think if he had the big surgery he needs and was out the season (or most of it) he wouldn't be the 800 pound gorilla. That's just my opinion. But, he is the highest payed player in the game so he is always going to attract attention, and the Yankee brass isn't ready to mail in the season with the new stadium opening. You have to take the good with the bad with him, he is still a great player.

The Teixerira thing was just a general statement from what I have heard from more than a few Boston fans, and with A-roid out, we need his bat in the lineup, badly.

You basically reiterated what I said between Cano and Pedroia. Cano needs plate discipline, like right now. Cano has a noticeable amount of fielding problems, but both he and Pedroia are pretty similar in the field, Pedroia has him (and the league) on FP in 08 with a comparable amount of games, but Cano has more PO, DP's, and assists. It's all about taking the good with the bad in the field (see Derek Jeter) Batting is where I meant that you would have an instant better 2nd baseman. If Cano can get his act together, like you said, he has more potential as a hitter.

BTW, how do you think Tek and Lowell will do for you guys this year?

No. He's not more than adequate. By every single metric other than Gold Gloves, he's a severely subpar defender. He shouldn't be playing the position.

Oops, hit post too soon.

A-Rod was a circus last year with the divorce, hanging with Madonna, and everything else. He was a circus when he opted out of his contract during the 7th inning of Game 4 of the World Series. He was a circus during his contract negotiations (both times). He has ALWAYS attracted a circus. NOW, he's been caught for steroid use and in _every town he travels to, people will let him know what they think_. This circus hasn't even BEGUN. Great player or not, he's a lot of trouble.

Cano has shown no signs of developing plate discipline in his four years in the majors, which is a big, big problem. He's a career minus WPA player which kind of suprised me (-1.62). Pedroia is a 3.03 career WPA player.

That said, all five major projection systems have Cano around .295/17/82, with an OBP of .335 and a SLG of .455. Pedroia is ranked around .305/13/70, with an OBP of .370 and a SLG of .450. I think they both match their projections, but if Cano can't improve his plate discipline beyond the 4.3% career walk rate, he could be in trouble.

I think Tek is a fucking corpse and I wish he wasn't on the team. I was so disappointed that they brought him back. Lowell I'm not sure of. The injury he had was pretty bad and can take a long time to heal. He's also old. I think he probably ends up hitting something like 280/20/80, which is okay. His defense has declined a bit and should be worse this year thanks to the injury. I expect him to be a little better than average, but not worth his contract.

The sox only need to be ahead by the 6th inning and it's a wrap

If you call that a circus I can't imagine what you called Manny's BS while he was with Boston.

BTW...I wonder why the Yankees are the favorite 3:1 to win the World Series and Boston is 7:1. I guess those guys in Vegas don't look at stats and pick a team out of the air.

Or perhaps the bookies are setting the market looking for people to bet the yankee's b/c they have the broadest fan base? The Casino's are hurting, so you do the math.

^^^^
R i i i i i i ght! LOL

As a Yankees fan, I can agree that Manny is a circus, nowhere near A-Rod, but he's getting closer. While Manny is an offensive power, he's a bum plain and simple. Alex had surgery, and was on a stationary bike soon after. Manny has been sitting around chasing paper, and is hurt....again. :rolleyes:

I'm just glad Manny took his drama elsewhere. But his circus in Boston wasn't nearly as bad as A-Roid. All Manny did was bitch about his contract and not show up to a few games/spring training.

You forgot a few things :

-The embarrassing dugout fight he had with Kevin Youkilis during a game.
-The physical altercation he had with the teams traveling secretary when he asked for 16 tickets while there were in Houston I think. Manny actually threw him down to the ground....He should've gotten slapped with a heavy fine and suspended by MLB IMO.
-When he asked to be taken out of the lineup right before a game with the Yankees.

That's not including:
- his unprofessional showboat act he puts on when he hits a HR, sloppy hair dos, extremely baggy uniforms, not running hard enough to first base because everything he hits to the outfield he thinks is out the park (so he usually has to settle for a single instead of a double).

I'm not a dodger fan, but I end up going to dodger games and I gotta say Manny was a huge boost for the team last year and I look forward to watching him play this season

Yeah but he's still one hell of a cut-off man.

lol

are you serious?

^^ and he even leaves his sticker on his hat........disgraceful. lmao

LOL

Not everyone can have spit-shined helmets and a dress code like the Nazis.


Annnnnd I think that's Godwin's law being invoked.

lol @ dress code like the nazi...kinda like Giambi's porno/hitler mustache

It's not so much the dress code or spit shined helmets (did you ever see Posadas helmet, not exactly shining in Yankees glory)He does dress like a loaf. He's the only guy in the league that looks like he just got out of bed. There is no need for Sox fans to defend him now, and I wish Frank McCourt good luck. There are a lot of car shows and grills on the west coast.

Yes I am.

You're a pro athlete making millions of dollars so present yourself as one is all I'm saying.

HAHA

you're also playing a game, rolling around in dirt & grass, spitting, chewing tabaccy, playing with your crotch, and slapping asses...

and if you win, you pour champagne all over everyone...real professional
btw, how is a millionaire supposed to look/dress?

OK, so why doesn't anyone else in the entire league dress or look like that? Name me another player who comes close.

I mean...he didn't even look like that when he was playing HS ball in Washington Heights! And that's the hood...LOL!

do you remember lenny dykstra & wally backman??

and thats without even thing...

*thing = thinking

Hell no....They don't even come close man. Not even the crazy blonde/orange haired bootleg Matsui that the Mets had a while ago...LOL.

John Kruk was a disgrace. Dudes helmet looked black, his uniform had mustard stains etc.

correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't baggy shirts an attempt to get hit by more pitches?

Nope its an attempt to hide the beer gut.

this made me LOL, CMOS, you'll appreciate it
www.clubhousecancer.com

hhahahahahaha.


I actually have inside dirt on an MLB player. I aint naming names on the internet but, we met this dude in Dominican Republic (hes not a dominican guy). Dude was bragging about roids and putting people on blast about using them. He was hanging with us all week smokin weed and doin coke, and taking extasy. I actually had to throw him out of our room a few times cuz he was geeked and annoying at 5am.


People idolize these guys like they are superheros, then get mad when they find out they are normal fucked up people.

LOL, my boy went to motorcycle school in Orlando last year, some peeps out ther who he was hanging with chilled with one of the white sox(he doesn't remember who, he's not at all a sports fan), but he said he did maaaad coke with him and that this guy was buying maaad coke and sharin...he also said this guy would sneak onto golf courses to play

That doesn't surprise me. I know a lot of connects in different hotels here in Midtown and Downtown so I here crazy stories when teams are in town. I heard shit like >insert players name here< likes to hang with nothing but men in his room. Another player gets drunk and pisses all over his room. Another player would ask concierge for locations of the gays bars etc...

I would like to know what player you're talking about though CMOS. It'll add to my list of dirt :)

word cmos, start a pm with me & cisco & spill the beans, both of you...i'd love to shout homo slurs @ the opposing team, especially if its true

www.flickr.com

just sayin...


and yes his yankee uniform is just as baggy

To be fair he's pretty hefty and if he wore a tight uni we'd be seeing things we don't want to.

True!

I was actually thinking about how they will go about this. They might have him rock a size smaller though (no Sheffield) to see how it goes:)

Bump!

So the Yankees finally get their first win today in a major way. I can't believe some of the NY media here was already talking smack and ready to jump ship just after two games!

No wonder why a lot of players do so poorly when they play for the Yankees....they can't handle that shit!

What did I say about Wang?

Wow my Indians owned the Yankees today. Also it looks like the Yankees greed has finally got to them considering it's 77 degrees here today and I saw a TON of empty seats

What DID you say about Wang? No one in baseball could've predicted this type of pitching from Wang. 30 earned runs in 6 innings is just unheard of !

I agree. The Yanks ARE sold out of the $100 and below seats but are having a really hard time trying to sell the "other" seats.

I said that Wang was a candidate to regress due to his low K rate.

This is FUCKING REGRESSION TO THE MEAN right now. He will likely turn it around (after all, good pitchers don't typically go this bad this quick; the only one I can think of is Rick Ankiel (but that was something completely different)), but the Yankees can't keep using their bullpen for 8 innings every time he pitches; it will destroy their staff.

Just for kicks, it would take 36 SCORELESS INNINGS from Wang to get him to a 5.175 ERA. It will take him 46 to get him to 4.14.

That is awesomely hilarious. His ERA is like a good stock - it keeps going up!

Lad, I would agree with you but one CAN'T regress when ONE never had it from jump :)

His ERA is indeed some funny shit.

He's regressing from the last few years.

I don't think that it's regresion or anything. I think he's just hurt or something.

Fun fact:

This is quite likely the worst 3 start stretch ever. Nobody from 1954 forward (as far back as the b-ref streak finder goes) has had 2 starts in a row of <= 1 IP and >= 8 ER. Wang misses this because one of his outings was 1.1 IP. So for there to be a worse streak, someone would have to have come as close as Wang did there, with another 3 IP 7 ER tacked on before or after.

Wang is probably the only person pissed that Dontrelle Willis isn't pitching in the majors...LOL.

That's amazing! Where did you find these facts?

Prediction-

Wang pitches a one hit shutout vs. Lester and BoSOx on Friday :)

LOL!

Red Sox/Yankees Pitching staff <Cubs Pitching staff
Red Sox/Yankees Bullpen < Cubs Bullpen


Have you seen Marmol Pitch? He's better than Papelbon.

what happened?

that kid was NIIIICE

I, uh, looked it up on baseball-reference.com. I have a subscription there to use the Play Index too.


This simply is not true. Any of it. Well, the Cubs starters might be better than the Sox ones, but the Sox bullpen is absurd. They have five guys who could reasonably close on some teams (Paps, Okajima, Ramirez, Saito, Delcarmen). The Cubs have Gregg and Marmol... and their setup guy is Heilman who was horrible in big spots for the Mets. And Gregg has a career ERA of 4. Then it's Neal Cotts and Vizcaino. Look, the Cubs have a good bullpen but it's CERTAINLY not better than the Red Sox.

Carlos Marmol reminds me a lot of Octavio Dotel; we'll see how he does going forward.



His motion was hard to repeat; guys who have trouble with that have a hard time sustaining success in the majors.

Here's the play-index link.

www.baseball-reference.com

bahahaha...put them in the American League and see how good they are.

Yankees just arent good period. There pitching is mediocre at best. They have absolutely zero offense and the team chemistry is like below sea level.

I expect a healthy 3 game sweep this upcoming weekend.

Wang wont make it out of the 4th...Beckett will pitch a complete game 3 hitter and it will be laughable...

I said dont be surprised to see a 12 game winning streak by the sox very soon in the other thread...I think we have seen the start of it this past weekend :)

Lmao!

Were you drunk when you typed that?

nope. perfectly sober.

lets just watch, maybe they might win one game by like a run, but I feel pretty confident predicting an easy sweep this weekend, even with Dice K out..

Papi is getting hot, which is a great thing cuz Youk isnt someone most people wanna mess with these days, so they will have to pitch to Ortiz and if he stays hot its on like donkey kong

You do know Wang isn't pitching due to the rain out last night right? If you remove Wang's 3 starts our pitching is doing a pretty good job.

Also, out of your whole pitching staff the only pitcher that would probably give us trouble as always will be Beckett.

Yanks take 2 of 3 in beantown. No 3 hitter, no 12 game streak, and for sure no sweep! You better hope Youk stays hot ALL YEAR..because once he's done with his hot streak it's a wrap!

I'm telling you all...it's going to be a different world without Manny...you'll see.

Oh yeah, you guys will be facing Joba, A.J, and PETTITTE....Holla!

Time to add some Red Sox hitters to your fantasy lineup folks! :p

hahahaha...

Joba is as scary as a fairy princess on Halloween.

AJ will be the only one that the Sox MIGHT have trouble with...although they have seen him umpteen times seeing he's always pitched in the AL East...and his last perforamance in spring training is in no way a dictation of how they will fair against him this weekend...

and Pettite? LMAO! refer to halloween comment.

Yanks will win one MAYBE...BIG BIG maybe. Sox are hot right now. we will see how they fair against Minn...They will prob take both games and be on a nice 6 game winning streak going into the weekend...

Youk is the only one that is really hot right now...wait until Pedrioa, Papi, and basically the middle of the order heats up...Sox avg right now is like 260 and thats solely due to Youk hitting like 480...once the team is in the zone like they were this past weekend they will be unstoppable...and once Dice-K is healthy...Lester that you saw on Sunday is the Lester you will for the rest of the season. Those first 2 games were just early year shits.

I cant wait to talk shit come next Monday :)

We'll see..LOL....I'm sure lad will gather all the stats for us too :)

We'll, I'm about to jump on the D train to head to the stadium and watch my Yanks kick some A's ass. Giambi's return is going to be interesting.

I'll post some stadium pics tomorrow for the Red Sox heads so ya'll can salivate over our new stadium! HAHA.

Id rather go to Fenway then Yankee Stadium any day of my life...lol

Stop hating tig.

The Stadium was amazing...I felt bad for the kid with the Papelbum jersey who was sitting in the bleachers though...LMAO! Those guys tore him a new one. I guess he didn't know that the alcohol ban was lifted this year for the creatures.

Damn CC just gave up the lead!

Are you kidding? Yankee Stadium was a shithole. FIRST off, Yankee Stadium isn't the original YS. They tore it apart in the 70s and rebuilt it. So that place that closed wasn't "The house that ruth built" anymore.

Meanwhile, you now have a fucking circus park (4 more homers today!). Congrats. Good luck getting free agent pitchers to sign when they're guaranteed 16-20 home starts with an automatic 3-4 earned runs to begin.

fucking yankees

You are such a typical Boston hater my dude.

First of all I was talking about the NEW stadium that I went to last night. The old stadium was RENOVATED and NOT rebuilt. You guys ALWAYS have an excuse to hate...Stop the hate!

Second, Fenway can stay open until the end of man and STILL will NEVER come close to being a "Yankee Stadium" aka The Mecca. From historic Ali fights, Maris 61st HR, Reggie "Mr October", The ONLY perfect game in history with Larson, Gehrig's farwell speech, etc...I can go on and on. What did Fenway have? Old school scoreboards?...WOOOOOWWW!

Last... What Boston needs to do is stack some more money and rings and MAYBE they can get a park as fkin sweet as ours. The most laughable shit is the "Green Monster" seats (what a racket). $400-$500 to sit ABOVE the monster...Yeah great seats...LMAO! They knew exactly where to find the suckers to fall for that shit!

Go ahead and say that it's a homerun/wind tunnel effect that's happening but regardless, it's a benefit for BOTH teams if that IS the case. As proven in the past as it will in the future...no one in their right mind (including pitchers with starting ERAs of 3+) would ever choose to go to Boston over NY...That's just the way it is and that's the way it's going to always be so deal with it....so stfu with your hate already.

Watchwww.youtube.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

LOL, really class...just like the Yankees ownership.

I'm not a Red Sox fan either, but they're certainly a lot more likeable. I live in one of the two best baseball cities in America - Detroit. The other one is St. Louis. NY, Boston and Chicago get a lot of hype from the media, but if you were to take a poll of the baseball players, they'll tell you how awesome the fans in DTW and STL really are.

You are wrong on so many levels it's hilarious.

In the 1970s, the Boss tore down and rebuilt Yankee Stadium. YS as you saw it last year looked very little like the pre-construction. They played TWO SEASONS in Shea. For all intents and purposes, the YS from last year was only 25+ years old. And that's fine, but it's not the House that Ruth Built. Hell, even ESPN calls it "Yankee Stadium II", because it was simply a different park!

So fucking what if there was a fucking Ali fight there? That doesn't mean it's a good park. You did forget one thing that happened at Yankee Stadium - the greatest choke in sports history. I'm sure you remember that? 2004? October? Yeah. The slap heard round the world by A*Rod? Damon's grand slam? The Sox celebrating on your field? All that? Yeah.

The New Yankee Stadium is very nice, don't get me wrong. But they're pricing their fans out and have already announced ticket prices are going up next year.

Meanwhile, I don't think you understand what this wind-tunnel effect will have. Look at the Phillies/Rockies/Rangers - they all have money and can't bring in big free agent pitchers because they know their ERAs will inflate and their next contract will be less. You have a goddamn bandbox of a park that will cause Melky Cabrera to be the worst player to ever hit 25 homers in a season. Congrats.

As for the Monster seats... it costs $100 for a seat and $20 for standing room. Don't know where you're getting $400-$500! Your stadium is the one with $2,500 seats that aren't being bought up! THAT is a racket, champ.

Finally, as for pitchers choosing NY over Boston... that's just silly. What was the last big free agent pitcher to choose NY... Contreras? How'd that work out? What a bad argument you are making.

Well like I said, they took 2 against the Twins have a 7 game winning streak going into the Yanks series...

this is gonna be good...

Lester vs. Joba in game 1 - Lester will shut the Yankees down...Joba will be out by the 4th.

AJ vs. Beckett - Pitchers duel type of game, expect Beckett to prevail...

Pettite vs. Masterson - Fossil vs. Fresh Fish - Im gonna take youth in this one..

hahaha...and there is my Red Sox fan boy prediction ;P

PAPI PAPI PAPI!!

If young Joba Chamberlain misbehaves tomorrow night, he might face a spanking from someone else's Papi. With Chamberlain scheduled to start for the Yankees in the opener of a three-game series against the Red Sox, David Ortiz yesterday said the talented right-hander should avoid using Kevin Youkilis' head as a bull's-eye. "None of that, man -- just play the game the way it's supposed to be, and that's about it," Ortiz said, referring to Chamberlain. "This is a guy, as good as he is, the next step for him will be to earn respect from everybody in the league. He's not a bad guy, but when things like that happen, people get the wrong idea." Considering he has fired four pitches either near Youkilis' head or behind Youkilis in the last 20 months, Chamberlain quickly has emerged as a villain to Red Sox Nation in this rivalry.

I would love to see David Ortiz get in a brawl...that would be hilarious.

I'll say the Sox take 2 of 3. A sweep would be nice, but I doubt it.

LOL. I was going to post that clip to the next anti-Yankee and yours was next....bad timing I guess for you. So no offense.

Detroit is indeed an awesome baseball city...Kirk Gibson FTW!

Yeah...they'll start throwing all of our 60+ years old coaches and trainers to the ground. LMAO!

Don't let his size fool you...he's a softy who would most likely sit back and watch a fight rather then be in one.....Have you ever seen his cooking show? LOL

lad-

>sigh<

Do you think that I didn't know that we played at Shea for 2 years?? What's the point you're making here? I don't get it but if it makes Boston fans feel better then whatever. I don't even listen to the ESPN clowns either...they're a bunch of "know it alls" that really don't know shit. Let me guess...you ACTUALLY believe half the crap that Morgan preaches? LOL

The old stadium was renovated to the point where it CAN be looked at as "rebuilt" so whatever floats your boat. It was renovated on the same ground as the old one and not moved to another location. Even if it is the "new" "rebuilt" Yankee Stadium it still holds more history than Fenway. I mean the "new" YS (according to you) has just about the same amount of rings in "25+" years than Fenway's entire 97 years of existence!!! LMAO...What was your point again?

WOW! The Monster seats dropped THAT low???The last time I checked on the Monster seats was back in 03 when they first installed them so pardon if I wasn't keeping track...my bad.

+1 on Contreras

Ummmmm...

Monster seats were never $500. Maybe from a scalper, sure. But I had first row Monster seats the first year they were available and they were $100.

I think Joe Morgan is an idiot. But it's a pretty well accepted fact that "Old" Yankee Stadium was completely rebuilt in the 70s, leading to most sports news agencies calling it "Yankee Stadium II". You don't have to accept that, but it's fact.

And stop it with the rings argument. That's the easiest way to make yourself appear ignorant. It's a piss poor argument that the mouthbreathers use.

Back on topic, though.

I think last night really showed the difference in the two clubs; the Yankees offense is a bit better than the Sox, but the Sox defense and bullpen are MUCH, MUCH better.

I wouldn't go as far as saying the Sox 'pen is MUCH, MUCH better, seeing as Rivera gave up the tying run. I think both pens did exceptionally well, unfortunately in the end, the Yankees pen was the one that faltered. I don't blame the bullpen at all, the offense had more than enough chances to score. On that note, Cano with a two run double off the monster!!!!!

well.... there's two games. Bernett looked sharp... for the first four innings :)

that was an awesome game today though.

I was at the bar for game 1, and there was a table of yankees fans, and a table of redsox fans (us). The owner of the bar is a huge redsox fan... when Bay hit the tying homer, the owner played "Ship Me Up to Boston", "Sweet Caroline" and "Dirty Water" back to back. This one yankees fan was pissed. I mean REAL pissed. He ended up going to the corner of the bar and warching the game by himself. When the ball came off Youk's bat in the 11th (hadn't even left the park yet) I ran over to him and screamed "GAME OVER! GAME OVER GAME OVVERRRRRRR!" and ran back to my seat. He got up and throw his chair across the room and was quickly thrown out of the bar. Hilarious

what a game today

You're telling me. I spent all day traveling and missed 90% of it, but Jesus. Wow.

I really wish they were both in different divisions. I like the rivalry, but games like the last two are enough to cause a heart attack. It's too much for close to 20 games a season. Here's hoping Andy does his job.

Or that the Jedi does his. :)

WOW. These were some crazy ass games. I thought the Yankees offense was better in game 1 but couldn't score with men on base. The Sox defense was indeed better also. BOTH bullpens for both games so far have been pretty bad.

Yesterdays game was a wild one but I couldn't watch most of it. All I have to say is thank God it's only April :)

I'm maaad tired so I won't too type much :)

+1 on the home steal! I can't remember when was the last time I saw that done live.

It's funny because I was watching the first game and I thought to myself "what if this dude actually tries to steal home plate".....nahhhhh.

I can't watch these games anymore because I have high anxiety as it is and I don't need this shit :) If this is how September ball is going to be then I won't be able to take it....

Props to to Blue Jays though for still staying on top of both our teams after all of this.

Anyone else sick of watching games on FOX and ESPN? OMG...I feel like muting my TV. The bullshit that these guys preach is amazing!

For those who love to flaunt the Yankees glorious past... The red sox just won the tie breaker

WTF are you doing in the "yankee thread" bro!?

Didn't Perez and the Mets get ROCKED by the NATS out of ALL teams?

Your STAR player (that I never bought into) David Wright is in the worst slump and has been fiening for a hit like a crack head :)

The Mets pitching and it's whole team has issues far beyong this thread. The Mets would actually LOVE to have the issues that Boston and The Yankees have right now.
I'm actually rooting for another SB World Series being that we both got new parks but it's not gonna happen. You guys need to bring Bobby V back or someone with a backbone that is NOT going to be bias based on someone's race....Yeah I said it!

BTW....I'm a little freaked out by tigs predictions :)

What "tie breaker" are you talking about Mr. Met?

4 posts in a row FTW!!!!! I'm tight! (no homo)

I think I called that sweep, right? I did say that right? yah I think I did.

10 game winning streak, I did say they'd go on a 12 game winning streak like a week and a half ago right? I think so? Yah I did. :)

ESPN, if your hiring, please contact me via gmail. thanks

They went into Sundays game with an even record against each other, like 400 somthing wins each, the sox are now up a game

So the thread can be filled with Boston fans, but no mets fans. Yeah, they lost, and ollie sucks(i was against resigning him) but we didn't get swept....

Who's racist, jerry manual?

Sorry I had to take it out on the Met :)

How far back are you going with the winning record? Overall the Yankees are 1108-927 against the Red Sox (going back to 1901).

People say the Omar Minaya only looks for hispanics for his team. It does look that way sometimes when I look at the team.

Sabathia < Verlander < Galarraga

Yankees are about to lose another series. Going to the game tomorrow...if it doesn't get rained out.

Yankees are just terrible. Like BAD! No pitching (altho they spent, what, 250 million on it on the offseason) hahahahahahhaha
Offense is pitiful....

When the Sox fans scream "Yankees Suck" its never been more true!

Meanwhile, THE SOX have one 11 in a row, did I say 12? Im good.

Bay is having a better month then Manny, the offense is clicking...and this is without Papi playing well...everyone else is picking up the slack...feels good to be a Sox fan! :)

maybe omar does pick hispanic players, but most of our hispanic players are pretty good

johan, reyes, beltran, delgado, k-rod(NOT perez, tho)


as far as the tie-breaker, that was a stat that they spit out during the 3rd game, but it was like 400-something wins each, maybe it was @ fenway?

BTW, I,ve heard that before about omar, and i think that for the people saying that to notice, are racist(old white men who call sports talk radio)

Look up what Delgado said about Minaya trying to appeal to him when he was a FA. Delgado was incensed that Minaya tried to appeal to his Latino side and almost refused the trade when he came over from the Marlins.

I forgot about that!

I feel bad that DVDjHardy had to sit through that game tonight :)
Allan Trammell FTW!!! Right!?

@range- Look, I'm a hispanic PR/DR but even I can see what he's trying to do. Yeah the Mets have VERY good latino players but I think it's fucked up.

The Yankees were the last team in MLB to get a minority player (correct me if I'm wrong lad). I ALWAYS think about that shit when I go to a game or when I watch them play.

Trust me if the Rockies were only recruiting white players.....fans would've went nuts (no dale).

BTW lad- Fuck yo streak and yo couch LMAO!
Watchwww.youtube.com

I was faded by the 7th inning...it didn't matter! :p

Yankees finally dropped the prices on tickets.
www.nypost.com

Red Sox were the last team to get a minority player. It was pumpsie green.

The Sox have a history of racism in the organization (which is thankfully over). The story goes that the Sox were once hosting a tryout for a bunch of players; this included the best Center Fielder of all time, Willie Mays. When Yawkey saw Mays on the field, he said "Get that ni**er off my field!"

What a game tonight! Lost the 4-0 lead only to win it with a 2 run GW single by Jorge. Cano extends his hitting streak to 18 gms and now has 34 hits for the season. He's clearly the hottest Yank (Swisher is second). Mark T NEEDS to start batting some hits (he's batting .189 WTF?).

lad: Didn't you say something like Cano is lazy due to Bowa leaving?

Just saying.....Youk is f*cking hot though...can't lie about that.

I said he's lazy in the field.

I hope tonights game doesn't get rained out! We need to give back the sweep. Three in a row coming right up!

bad prediction... and i cant' believe yankees fans LEAVE the stadium because of a little rain. You'll never see that happen at Fenway.

oops. looks like thats not happening.

YANKEES SUCK! They are over matched by the Sox Pitching and Offense.

Those empty seats you see on TV are for the big ballers who take their clients out to the games. They know shit about baseball. I would've left too...the weather was too shitty to play. They should've called the game if you ask me.

Boston pitching hasn't been that impressive dude. A few Ks last night and all of a sudden Boston pitching "overmatch"? C'mon.

Exactly, they havent been impressive, yet still shutting down the Yankees..Dice-K isnt even in the rotation and Penny is all over the damn place...wait until they catch fire...might see multiple no hitters against the Yankees this season hahaha

I read a story where it said Yankees staffers told fans the game was cancelled then wouldnt let anyone back in thru certain gates after tehy started playing

www.nydailynews.com

oh, and how sweep it is... again

hahahaaaa...Yankees are just terrible..

Ellsbury and YOUUUUUUUUUUUK werent in the lineup either. Could we see a 19-0 vs the Yankees this year? We Might! ahahhahaa

The ONLY good thing about all of this is that it's still early in the season. I rather get all of this out the way now then in September :)

i heard they were gonna rename the new stadium to FennwayII

Go ahead and act like you don't see a 15 game winning streak in the making.

I don't see a 15 game winning streak in the making. Nice streak so far, though.

Damn, I knew I shouldn't have posted anything because of the jinx but it's all good.

Side note---I would never ever root for the Mets but during this series I will. That's how much I hate the Red Sox :) There you go range...I'm on your side for this series ONLY...lol

You know who has a streak going? The fucking Tigers!

We about to sweep!!

A broken bat homer. Are you joking? How are they not ashamed of this park?

C'mon. That park is part of the character of baseball, we need more parks like this!

Uh what? Yankee Stadium is basically Arena League Baseball. We're looking to be on pace for 316 homers hit there this season; that's twice what was hit in old Yankee Stadium.

Character is ivy walls like at Wrigley; it's the hill in center field in Houston, it's Chavez Ravine and the sight lines beyond the outfield. New Yankee Stadium has ZERO character.

First of all, t was hit to LEFT field dude and not right field (remember THAT'S the side where we control the wind tunnel thingy when we're up). You're acting like it was melky or swisher that hit that HR...IT WAS TEIXEIRA!!

Who cares what they are on pace to do? BOTH teams have an equal advantage to this so called wind effect that everyone claims is happening at right. Why can't you understand this?

PLUS, it's getting old so you should really drop it.

And you say this because of the nice pictures that you've seen on the net? Or something some Boston writer wrote in his column? Because I know I wouldn't make a comment like that without ever stepping foot in the new park.

Don't be another typical red sox hater.

Citi field> new Yankee stadium

CISC0, its still 80+ homers in 20+ games. I don't know how any fan can be happy that's happening. It's going to be a major disadvantage to the Yankees going forward - no pitcher is going to want to sign there when it's a horrible place to pitch. I know both teams get to hit there, but it's Arena League Baseball - how can any fan be happy watching 10-8, 11-7, 9-6 games all the time. It's bad for your team as you have to burn through pitchers. Go look at what the Rockies had to deal with - sure, both teams got to use that park for power, but what it did net them, even when they spent $200M on free agent pitching? Nothing - at least until they kept balls in a humidor and changed the dimensions of the park.

It's bad baseball, CISC0, that's what you keep overlooking.

Yes, it was to left field, but the whole stadium is playing like a little league ballpark. I don't read Boston sportswriters because as a whole (other than Chad Finn) they suck.

The place is gorgeous. No one is denying it. But they're effectively priced out tons of fans and the place is dripping with corporate greed. One writer called it "A Monument to Excess". That seems appropriate.

So, congrats. You have a ballpark that nearly everyone (including many Yankee fans I know) think is a joke. Enjoy having starters go 4 innings before getting knocked out and having to carry 13 pitchers on your staff, including 2 long men, just to get to the 7th inning.

The interesting thing is that while homers are up HUGE at NYS, all of this ease to hit a homer has made it really hard to hit a double - it's the 3rd hardest place to hit a double this season. This will also make it harder to hit a triple as well - but the park factors on this are in WAYYY too small a sample size.

+1 on low scoring games... i watched Johan win a 1-0 game against the phillies @ citi-field last month

On new Yankme Stadium...

I heard a story that in the very expensive seats, food is included with the ticket purchase, anyway, a fan was caught throwing ice cream sandwiches to the, ummmm, lesser fortunate seats. When he was told he couldn't do that he said "i paid X-amount of $$ for these seats, i can do whatever i want"
=)

The one thing you need to stop doing lad is comparing NYS (and the team) to other parks (and other teams). I think I said this before (scroll up somewhere) but, I can't see anyone turning down an opportunity to pitch for the Yankees because of this. There are too many factors to consider when choosing a team to play for (a winning team, farm system, major city where one can shine, media coverage, etc...).

It's bad baseball? I guess it depends who you ask right? I mean, I know a bunch of "real" New York Yankee fans and I've never heard it called a "joke".

I personally like watching high scoring games from time to time. I'd rather watch a low scoring game when both teams have a good starting pitcher. You have to remember, the average fan would rather watch offense than defense. That is what the owners and GMs would want the fans to watch (that's why there was a blind eye to steroid use).

+1 on the doubles and triples fact. You do know that an inside the park home run was already hit in our park right? yankees.fandome.com

Johan is a pitcher I would like to watch in a low scoring game. But, the average fan would just fall asleep watching a low scoring game. Trust me GMs and owners would love to have balls flying out of the park because they know it will generate cash flow and more heads to the park.

LOL. I would've loved to see that. Those "box seat" people are always getting picked on anyway....

Inside the park home runs have nothing to do with a hitter and everything to do with misplaying the ball. Guys don't get inside the parkers on solidly hit, well played balls (except for like, Carl Crawford). Span completely overplayed the ball. That should have been a SINGLE, if not a double at the very worst.

The reason that guys won't go pitch there is because their NEXT contract will be a lot lower in value if their numbers are much higher as a result of pitching in NY. And when you can't get through the 5th inning, that's a black mark on your record. Don't get me wrong; I think they will still sign plenty of pitchers - they've got a lot of money and can pay people. But if it does turn out that NYS is Coors East... it's going to get very interesting to see what happens. That said, filling your staff with guys who get Ks and groundballs is a way to help offset the park.

I think watching 11-7 games that take 4 hours and have 11 pitching changes are bad baseball. The average fan doesn't want to sit for 4 hours either; in fact I'd argue that the average fan would like to see a 4-3, well-played, well-pitched game that lasts 2.5 hours than a slugfest that takes four.

chicks dig the long ball =p

i agree with lad

Real baseball fans love watching 1-0 games!

And saying no pitcher will turn down the Yankees (and give up their shot at HOF) is like saying no DJ would turn down a gig to spin at Webster Hall to play a Soulja Boy medley.

Yeah, I went THERE!

I'm not sure about that! You know you'll spin at Webster Hall and play Swag On...LOL

OK so the Sox/Yanks series is about to go down. 2/3 for the Yanks. I wonder how many HRs Ortiz will hit in this "arena league circus park"? Oh wait!

For the subway series (Mets/Yanks)..........Yanks sweep. Sorry range it's real talk.

*waits for Mon.*

Haha, yeah right!

I love inter-league play though...nice to see some teams that we don't see all the time.

By then we'll be playing your backups backups :)

6 more home runs tonight at the Toilet.

I don't know how many homers Ortiz will hit (likely none), but it's still Arena League Baseball at Yankee Stadium III!

Oh wait, it's at Fenway Park. That means no one will hit a homer during Arena League Baseball at Yankee Stadium these next 3 days.

yo i heard a-rod bunted a home run last nite

Yep 4 of them were to right by Yankee players. For some reason I thought we were hosting....whatever...we are still taking 2/3.

LOL @ range!

Sorry 5 more homers, not 6.

There goes your chances of ever winning again....LOL

www.nypost.com

OH NOOOOOOO

Hahaha that's great.

OK, now that we got that one out the way :)

bad news yankee fans, dude planted the same type of seeds we use. Sabotage FAIL, and in case you missed it:

nbcsports.msnbc.com

No, the seeds he used only prevents WS wins that's all. It said so on the back of the packaging.

i know both teams will be there in the end..... but i gotta say it. SOX ARE 8-0 against the yanks in 2009!! :P

^^^Yep. Straight owned this year by them. Props to them. They still suck :)

OMG!!!!!!!

He DROPPED it!!!!!!!!


LMAO!!!


Sorry range :(

man, you don't was no time kid

*waste

Yeah I was going through some music on my laptop...lol. I think I just woke my daughter up too.LOL

You too! :)

Man, what a beating Santana took. He did a Wang out there today. (no misquote)

8-0

I just took a $100 dollar bet with my barber that the Yankees end up getting farther than the Sox.

Money in the bank for me.

fixed.

Seriously. That's dangerous. The Red Sox have played the toughest schedule in baseball this year and are in a stretch where they played three straight first place (or the Yankees) teams and went 9-3.

The toughest schedule in baseball!??? According to who? You?

It's called a hot streak dude...take it easy there. Everyone knows it's the scrubby teams that'll get you.

On a side note: Is anyone surprised that Sosa juiced in 03? I mean why is this news?

No.
It's the toughest schedule in baseball based on... this:

sonsofsamhorn.net

Yes, it's a Red Sox website. But you can't argue with numbers. That said, four of the five toughest schedules in baseball are in the AL East - that's what comes with being in the best division in the game.

CISC0, I got nothing but love for you, bro, but when have I ever said something that wasn't, at the very least, backed up with statistical evidence?

WOW. As soon as I figure this shit out I'll reply back :) Just glancing quickly it looks like this formula is a mixture of stats and chance? I'll take a closer look during lunch LOL.

I asked the question because I always hear the term "tough schedule" but never really thought about how one can determine if in fact a schedule is "tough".

And for the record, you never backed up your YS right field wind tunnel theory :)

There's no chance - it's called "karma", and it's based on the simple idea of the law of averages. For example, on average, major league baseball pitchers give up a BABIP (batting average on balls in play) at a .300 clip. It will vary between 280-320 generally. So if a guy has a .220 or .400 BABIP, that means he's either getting very lucky or very unlucky. Sometimes its not luck - like when a guy is getting tattooed repeatedly, but 99% of the time, it's luck. That shit evens out. It's "karma".

SWEEP!

Mo gets his 500th save!

How the hell does KRod walk Mo for a run? LMAO! I'll never see the 2 best closers going at it like that ever again.

The Mets are fucking awful.

AWFUL.

And K-Rod is not a top 5 closer in baseball. Here's 5 I'd take over him in a cocaine heartbeat:

Rivera
Papelbon
Nathan
Bell
Broxton

Here's 5 more I'd take over him.
Fuentes
Lidge (when his head is straight)
Street
Soria
Cordero

Any closer in K-Rod's position could have set the saves record last year - saves is such an overblown statistic. Meanwhile, he's walked 22 guys this year! 22!!! AS A CLOSER!! That's a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE thing. He's walked the most guys for any reliever in baseball outside of Carlos Marmol. I'd rather have Brian Bruner close for me than Rodriguez. Guy is a fraud.

I was rooting for Mo to get a hit there, but the walk was just so much fun.

I agree, K Rod is overrated, and to be honest, I'm surprised his arm hasn't literally fallen off yet. I would never want to be his pitching coach, I would have nightmares about his mechanics.

There is also no excuse for walking an A.L pitcher with less than a handful of career AB's.

^^^^Agree.

To the Mets defense, they are playing with a minor league "like" team. I was really surprised they even kept the scores respectable (except the second game). One thing is for sure though...their season looks so done. I kind of feel bad for them...LOL

I don't know what's going on with K-Rod all of a sudden. One can not just lose THAT much talent in such a short period of time.

WOW. With the exception of the Dodgers...I really can't believe how bad the National League is.

The Dodgers aren't even that good. They're playing in the worst division in baseball (and it's not even close). Put the Blue Jays in the NL West and they're in first place.

take away your 2 & 3 starting pitchers, your leadoff hitter, and your 3 & 4 hitters from ANY team, and they will be in the same situation as the mets...

The Mets are awful outside of that. Their manager CHOSE TO PITCH TO DEREK JETER INSTEAD OF RIVERA.

Now, granted, no one expected Rivera to draw a walk, but that's another story altogether.

They went into the season with no backups or real plan, which is what happens when your GM is a joke. A good team - hell, look at the Red Sox - they lost (for all intents and purposes) their star hitter in Ortiz for the first two and a half months of the season. They lost an 18-game winner in Daisuke. They built depth in the rotation that is NINE PITCHERS DEEP!! (Lester, Beckett, Wakefield, Daisuke, Smoltz, Penny, Buchholz, Bowden, Masterson) THAT is how you win - you build depth.

The Mets have been a joke for years now - they blew TWO September division leads. Their manager is fucking horrible. Their GM is a joke. I mean this. I'd rather be a Royals fan than a Mets fan. At least the Royals have Greinke.

The Yankees just acquired former Sox player Eric Hinske from the Pirates for a pair of minor leaguers.

Hmmm. I guess it's a pretty good move by the Yanks considering they got him for next to nothing. It'll add some defense to the outfield plus he also plays the infield.

Lad, what did you think about him when he was with Boston in 07?

Bring on the STATS! LOL.

the entire pirates farm system is going to be former yankee prospects haha

I think Hinske is gonna really benefit from playing in that stadium - his swing is built to play there. He's replacing Nady as the 5th outfielder and backup 1b (and maybe 3b - hasnt played much there in a while).

He's a decent player now - no longer the guy he was when he won the ROY, but he's going to help enough. He can spell Teixeira and Rodriguez and take over in the OF for Swisher/Damon/Matsui when necessary.

Solid pickup, especially since the Yankees apparently got the Bucs to pick up half his salary.

Wow, the Red Sox - AS A TEAM - just left the field with two outs. Just walked off. Because they're dumbasses. Awesome.

What??? LOL. Honestly, there is a lot of players nowadays who really don't pay any attention to outs and counts anymore. We're seeing it more and more lately.

LOL....I have to see that one though on ESPN.

Wow!

I can't believe Yook beat out Teixeira for the all star spot. You guys must've been voting your asses off. I guess NYers have other things to do.

last week, against the Mets, St Louis, turned a DP for the 3rd out, and just stood on the field



more people in NY

Yeah, and the voting goes until the July 2nd, I believe.

FWIW, these are my all-star rosters, assuming voting holds as of yesterday (didn't update for the newest voting news)

C Mauer MIN
1B Teixeira NYY
2B Kinsler TEX
3B Longoria TAM
SS Jeter NYY
OF Bay BOS
OF Ichiro SEA
OF Hamilton* TEX

C Napoli LAA
C/1B Martinez CLE
1B Pena TAM
1B Branyan SEA
1B/3B Youkilis BOS
3B Inge DET
2B Hill TOR
SS Bartlett TAM
SS Scutaro TOR
OF Hunter* LAA
OF Dye CHW
OF Zobrist* TAM
OF Jones BAL

SP Greinke KC
SP Hernandez SEA
SP Jackson DET
SP Halladay TOR
SP Verlander DET
SP Millwood TEX
SP Weaver LAA
RP Papelbon BOS
RP Rivera NYY
RP Fuentes LAA
RP Nathan MIN
RP Bailey OAK

Pos NL Team
C Molina STL
1B Pujols STL
2B Utley PHL
3B Wright NYM
SS Ramirez FLA
OF Ibanez PHL
OF Braun MIL
OF Beltran NYM

C McCann ATL
C Hanigan CIN
1B Fielder MIL
1B Gonzalez SD
3B Sandoval SF
3B Reynolds ARI
2B Sanchez PIT
SS Tejeda HOU
SS Tulowitzki COL
OF Hawpe COL
OF Upton ARI
OF Dunn WAS


SP Vazquez ATL
SP Lincecum SF
SP Haren ARI
SP Gallardo MIL
SP Santana NYM
SP Johnson FLA
SP Cain SF
SP Lilly CHC
RP Bell SD
RP Franklin STL
RP Rodriguez NYM
RP Broxton LAD


And I know the humor of my picking K-Rod for the all-star game.

don't think Beltran will play...

Right. Beltran will still get voted in though. Those starting lineups are who the leaders were as of yesterday.

I'd say you can replace him in the starting line up with Upton and then put Hunter Pence on the team.

you lad, u know anything about some H.S. kid whos hittin the ball 500+ feet?

That's a tight list lad. It looks like you might not be bias at all :)...Kinsler over Pedroia? Wow, even I would've chose Pedroia over Kinsler......then I would've picked Cano...LOL!

I'm not too sure about Hamilton though. Maybe it's just me but, I never bought into the hype.

I skimmed through the NL picks as always.....They're going to lose regardless :)

That reminds me....time to vote!

I agree!

Yeah, Bryce Harper. He's pretty incredible and will likely go #1 to the Nationals next year.

As I said, those "starters" are the ones who were the voting leaders at the time I made the list. I don't agree with Hamitlon being there, but if the fans vote him in, then he's in. Even then, Kinsley and Hill deserve to be there over Pedroia or Cano.

Meanwhile, the Sox bullpen has blown a 10-1 lead and are now down 11-10. I've just been laughing about it.

I hope Hardy doesn't get mad I left Miguel Cabrera off my roster. It's hard to justify carrying 5 1B types, and he's been the worst of Youkilis/Teixeira/Pena/Branyan.

Actually, it'll be atrocious if he gets left out! :p

I don't quite keep up with the stats for other teams, but he's really been the only consistent offensive player for the Tigers this year - although Inge and Granderson have helped in terms of home runs. I watch about 80% of their games, and I think without him playing as well as he has, they'd be under .500 right now.

Anyways, All-Star game is not that big of a deal to me. I hope he gets to stay at home and get some rest! And I REALLY hope that Verlander doesn't have to pitch during the game either....

PS - I voted about 20 times. First roster reflected the players I thought that truly deserved to be there in the AL. I just have to guess for the NL or vote for players I like. And the other ballots....they rep the Tigers rosters! LOL

Oh, I agree. But he's 5th in OPS among 1st basemen. Besides, I put three other Detroit players on the team.

And with that, the Sox have officially blown a 9 run lead. Wow.

I just saw that! Thanks!

To Bmore at that?

See? This is why I don't get crazy with the stats. Stats are thrown out the window and make you go crazy....meanwhile, someone gets a stomach ache or juice "withdrawal" and everything goes to shit.

Joel Zumaya is probably the worst-fielding pitcher I've EVER seen!

They blew it because after the rain delay they mentally checked out of the game.

Stats alone won't get you anywhere and neither will scouting. Using them both in the right way, that's how you build a non-Mets team.

lol are you talking about the ball that orlando cabrera hit?

so boston blows ONE lead in an extremely crazy game and it makes you want to throw stats out the window?

can't remember who it was that hit a slow roller between 1st and 2nd base. Zumaya just kinda slid on it like a little bitch instead of picking it up and throwing it to the 1st base. Dude just annoys me...I don't know why. May be its because he misses baseball games due to retarded "injuries".

I stated earlier in this thread that I'm not a fan of stats. And what was so "crazy" about that game anyway? So it was rain delayed OK.......So Baltimore didn't have to wait just as long as Boston?

i just meant that 11-10 games that feature 9-run comebacks aren't exactly commonplace, so there's no reason to throw stats out the window based on a game like that

It was crazy because the Sox basically checked out of the game during the delay (as evidenced by their walking off the field with 2 outs).

Bah! Whatever. Sox blew the lead and Papelbum blew the save :)

No need to try and justify it.
Uno- I throw stats out the window everytime and everyday. It's something I always saw as 'fun facts". Again....MOST stats and not all stats.

Especially in baseball. They F'n know when was the last time Jeter hit 2 doubles... against two different pitchers...in the same inning...before 8pm....

Just look at the new "hold" stat. WTF is that about!?

So Tim Wakefield makes it to the All Star game? Did they feel sorry for him or something?

Tigers are stinking it up!

Range...if you feel bad about your team, start following the Tigers right about now.

Dontrell Willis was a huge disapointment, i wanted him on the Mets eal bad, not now tho

although i will say thanks for Sheffield 400,000 was a steal!

Wakefield had no business being picked. I guess think of it as a "lifetime achievement" pick. Plus, it'll be fun to see the knuckler in the ASG with catchers who have never caught one behind the plate.

Hold isn't a new stat, and it's stupid. Just like the save stat is stupid.

I'm gonna try to vote at least a 1000 times today for Brandon Inge for the all-star game! That's my favorite player....Help me out and vote for him! :)

mlb.com

That's a really close race he's in.

Keep voting! I'll buy you a beer or five next time I'm in NYC! :)

wakefield has more wins than santana this season

You're welcome! I drink Coors Light BTW...So when are you coming back to NYC? LOL!

@djlad- Watchwww.youtube.com

Wins are such a useless metric to qualify good pitching.

Hell, even ERA isn't that great. Using rate stats like K/BB, K/9, BB/9, HR/9 are better. Rate stats can often show how a pitcher is REALLY doing - if they're walking a lot of batters (like Jon Papelbon) compared to their strikeout rate (like Jon Papelbon) it usually means they're getting lucky despite a low ERA.

Two pitchers to compare:
Pitcher A: 1.89 ERA, 22 SV, 18 BB, 40 K, 4 HR, 38 IP
Pitcher B: 2.11 ERA, 17 SV, 23 BB, 48 K, 1 HR 38.1 IP

Who is having a better season? Frankly, it's hard to say. But the point is that Pitcher A is an all-star and Pitcher B probably didn't sniff it. I'd honestly say that Pitcher B is having a better year.

One really cool stat is WPA: it's Win Probabilty Added. Basically a group of statisticians went and took EVERY single game from the last 15 years and put them into a database. From wikipedia:


Basically it shows how valuable a player REALLY is. It values a 3-run homer in the ninth inning, down by 2 runs, a FAR more than a 3-run homer up by 10 in the ninth. Does this make sense?

Anyhow, here are you leaders for the season.

AL Hitters:
(best)
Johnny Damon: 3.13
Jason Bay: 2.89
Ben Zobrist: 2.79
Mark Teixeira: 2.42
Joe Mauer: 2.30
(worst)
Robinson Cano: -1.90
Mike Lowell: -1.62
Ben Francisco: -1.27
Ryan Sweeney: -1.17
Mike Jacobs: -1.13

NL Hitters:
(best)
Albert Pujols: 4.51
Prince Fielder: 3.99
Chase Utley: 3.55
Raul Ibanez: 3.50
Pablo Santoval: 2.82
(worst)
Chris Young: -2.27
Willy Tavares: -1.98
Jeff Franceour: - 1.85
Mike Fontenot: -1.61
Jimmy Rollins: -1.57


AL Pitchers:
(best)
Zack Greinke: 2.96
Edwin Jackson: 2.60
Justin Verlander: 1.99
Roy Halladay: 1.93
Cliff Lee: 1.73
(worst)
Jeremy Guthrie: -1.29
Brian Tallet: -1.27
Francisco Liriano: -1.17
Brett Anderson: -.99
Trevor Cahill: -.93

NL Pitchers:
(best)
Jason Marquis: 2.61
Dan Haren: 2.52
Tim Lincecum: 2.46
Matt Cain: 2.31
Josh Johnson: 2.21
(worst)
Todd Wellemeyer: -1.63
Shairon Martis: -1.19
Kevin Correia: -1.01
Bronson Arroyo: -.89
Jamie Moyer: -.88

For the record, the best/worst relievers for each league are:
AL: Jon Papelbon 2.54/Brandon League -1.51
NL: Ramon Troncoso 2.64/Brad Lidge -2.21

It's not a perfect stat, as it doesn't take fielding into account (which would probably put Lowell as WAY worse than Cano), but it's pretty cool.

I wish I could find the single game leaders for WPA, but from what I can tell, this is the highest possible:

Pitcher allows no hits through 9 innings, but triples every time up, and 3 batters reach via error each inning. Pitcher strikes out side each inning, stranding 27 baserunners, getting to 3rd 4 times, then homering in the bottom of the 9th.

That is, unless the pitcher turned unassisted triple plays every inning. Not sure.

haha, good question. Probably sometime before the end of this year, but who knows...but yes, I'm happy as a little baby eating non-baby food for the first time!

Yanks and Sox tied for 1st.... no matter which side your on you gotta love it!!!

That hurt my head reading it LOL...But I get it. That stat is indeed a very cool f*cking stat!


I hate it :)

lad, i think you missed your calling...

What was my calling?

I'm a big baseball stat geek, what can I say? I love it. I spend a lot of time reading and crunching numbers, but not nearly as much as others. Fangraphs.com is an AWESOME site for this kind of stuff. You can find out what player swings at the most pitches out of the strike zone (Bengie Molina), what pitcher gets the most swings (Scott Baker), and stuff like that.

i got into baseball stat geek stuff because of fjm. rip...that site was so damn funny

Ken Tremendous is a writer for the Office and a Red Sox fan. Hoo hah!

One of the rarest plays in baseball happened in the Royals/Sox game last night. A 9-2 forceout - since 2000 there hasn't been a single right fielder forceout at 1st, don't know about before that.

Sorry it was to catcher.

A forceout at home on a ball hit to right. CRAZY.

I need to see that! How the hell does that happen?

Bottom of the 6th of the Sox/Royals game on the 11th.

Bases loaded. Line drive hit to right, ball drops right before Drew catches it. He's charging because the ball was hit shallow. Scoops the ball and fires in one motion. Slow runner on third doesn't get home in time.

My boss (a Met fan) just brought to my attention the error Jeter made on Friday night against the Angels. I didn't hear anything about it until he told me just now.

It wasn't as bad as Castillo's error (Jeter did use 2 hands), but the Angels did score 3 runs in that inning. LOL....I guess he just wanted to give me shit about it since it was a very bad Jeter error. He was pretty upset that it didn't get much coverage like the Castillo error :)

Poor guy... my father is an english teacher and never uses foul language.... unless he is watch thing Mets.... lol...

Playoff odds by Baseball Prospectus:

Team / Projected Wins / Division Champ % / WC % / Total Playoff Chances

Red Sox 95 - 52/ 30 / 82
Yankees 92 - 26 / 32/ 58
Rays 90 - 21 / 26 / 47

Tigers 84 - 39 / .5 / 40
ChiSox 81 - 20 / .5 / 21
Twins 84 - 39 / .5 / 40

Angels 87 - 56 / 3 / 49
Rangers 85 - 25 / 3 / 28
Mariners 84 - 18 / 2 / 20


Phillies 87 - 60 / 4 / 64

Cardinals 87 - 62 / 3 / 65

Dodgers 101 - 95 / 4 / 99
Giants 85 - 2 / 27 / 29
Rockies 87 - 3 / 45 / 48

I included it for all teams over 20% to make the playoffs.
www.baseballprospectus.com

Those numbers will drastically change once we get Halladay.

AL beats the NL- how shocking! LOL...It threw me off for a sec when they showed Mariano's record (12-0-1)...I was like wtf this aint hockey...then I remembered.

Nice! Yankees get home field advantage in the World Series.

You a Red Sox fan in NYC? That must be fun....

I think he's just being more realistic than me or Cis...haha. Plus, I imagine that if you're a Mets fan, you probably root for the Red Sox too.

PS - Even though I hate the White Sox, I love how Obama was rocking a ChiSox jersey when he threw out the first pitch.

Hater. I would be one too if I was a Met fan :)

To get Halladay I hope you enjoy giving up Joba + Cervelli + 3 more prospects. The Bedard deal is the baseline and it only goes up from there, especially in the same division. If Halladay is going anywhere, it's St Louis or Philly.

far from a sox fan, but i think the sox got the best chance of making it out of the AL, hence the home field advantage

I doubt they'll do a trade with anyone within the division. Chances are it'll be 3+ teams in a mini blockbuster deal.

they saying it don't matter if he goes within the division, b/c in 1 year when hes a free agent the yankees/sox can just buy him anyway, if he does go within the division, that team wil be raped

I couldn't find this on baseball reference of anything else easily accessible. Anyone know who is the all-time leader in career strikes and balls pitched?

The Yankees are used to this so it shouldn't be a problem.

i hope the yankees get him..... anyone but the Phillies...

thoughts on Pedro?

I love Pedro....probably my favorite player of all time.

That said, he's a desperation move for the Phils. You're hoping he gives you 100 pitches and gets you to the 6th because that's all he is now.

Please tell me that you were only kidding right?

My opinion on Pedro is that he left his good stuff in Boston. I can't picture him throwing 100 pitches consistantly.

Pedro is my favorite player of all time. He's charismatic, competitive and smart.

He was 5'8", 175 pounds and was DOMINATING during the steroids era. From 1997-2003, he was the best pitcher of all time - no single pitcher had a 7 year span better than that.

Who is Karim Garcia?

LOL. I remember Karim Garcia...why?

Without a doubt Pedro (the Yankees son) was a hell of a pitcher when he was with Boston. But to say that he was the best pitcher of all time is crazy talk.

^^^
look @ the #'s
among them, highest winning percetage ever, if i'm not mistaken

what made pedro so awesome during that time period was the fact that guys all over the league were hitting tons of homers and scoring was way up etc

+1 on Pedro. At the time, I thought Clemens was more impressive because I always liked him better. However, looking back....no doubt that Pedro was the best over that period. And obviously not on roids either.

My fav pitchers would be a tie between Jack Morris and Greg Maddux.

that oakland minnesota game last night was AWESOME

Pedro was the best pitcher over any 7 year span, ever. It's not even debatable unless you're talking about Koufax in his peak. But even then.... I don't buy it.

(Btw, that "Who is Karim Garcia" line was said by Pedro...)

Anyway, this is what Pedro did from 1997-2003:

118-36, 1408 IP, 1009 H, 1761 K, 315 BB, and an ERA+ of 213. His worst ERA of any season was 2.89, his first in the AL HIS WORST!!!

In one season, his ERA was 1.74. Second was Clemens with 3.70 - that's almost two points higher! That's INSANE.

Cisco, I think we've gotten to know each other pretty well in this thread, and I don't usually make claims about stats I can't back up - this is one I won't only back up but I'll say I'm 100% right on. With pitchers over 2000 IP in their career, Pedro is #1 with a 154 ERA+. Second through tenth read like the HOF legends list:
Lefty Grove, Walter Johnson, Hoyt Wilhelm, Ed Walsh, Roger Clemens, Addie Joss, Mordecai Brown, Cy Young, Christy Mathewson.

Absurdity. Pedro beats them all.

^^ I never doubted you Vlad :) When it comes to stats I think you've made you point that you seem to know them and have good access to them. I honestly think you might even need some help...lol.JK.

Well, off the top of my head and without looking at stats I would've went with:

1-Koufax
2-Seaver
3-Ryan
4-Johnson
5-Clemens

In no particular oder.

Oh yeah...I won't even mention the first place thing for now...gotta run! Be back in a few.

WHOA. Okay.
NOLAN RYAN?

Nolan Ryan is without a doubt, the most overrated athlete in professional sports history. Now, why do I say that? He built a legend on his "no hitters" and his "good ol boy" attitude. I can think of 10 pitchers (at least) since 1945 (post-war baseball) I'd rather have pitch a Game 7 for me than him. I mean that. Ryan was a good single-game pitcher but was above average for his career. He was terrific at avoiding hits, but he just turned them into walks instead (1st all time in walks). Yes, he struck out 5700 guys, but he did it at a 2:1 K:BB ratio. That's pretty mediocre.

Moreover, as I said, he's gained "legendary" status for his no-hitters. That's all fine and good, but those are excellence over a single game, not over a career. Don't get me wrong, length of career counts - that's why Wakefield is valuable. He gives you 170-200 innings of league average pitching. And Ryan was a better pitcher than Wakefield ever was. But there's simply no real argument that anyone can make that can put Nolan Ryan in the top 5 pitchers of all time.

If you noticed though, I said that Pedro has the best 7-year span of any pitcher ever, not career. I wouldn't argue that he's the best pitcher ever - he's not, that's Walter Johnson. But he did have the best 7 year span ever. The only one who can compare is Koufax from 1960-1966 - that's it.

Cisco, I think you're dramatically underrating how impressive Pedro was considering when he pitched and how good he was. He put up comparable stats to Koufax's best 7 years, except that Koufax did it at the best time in baseball history (post 1900) to be a pitcher and Pedro did it at the very worst.

My fault...For some reason I thought I read "best pitcher ever". So yeah, without a doubt that span was the best ever...no question. I never underrated Pedro, in fact I always liked watching him dominate batters (except the Yankees of course).

"The most overrated athlete in the world"? Wait, I thought that was David Ortiz? LOL! Seriously though, I can see myself choosing Ryan to pitch a game 7 for me based on his SO stats alone...why not? You're acting like 7 shutouts is an easy task to accomplish...especially when it's up against another major league team. They can be the wackest team but they're still a major league team.

Like I said those picks were off the top of my head so it's nothing. It's really difficult to choose who the best pitchers or players were anyway....with everything that you have to factor in and all.

PREDICTION:

Joe Torre will win the 1st World Series @ the new Yankee Statium...

remember where you heard it 1st!

Ryan's problem was that while he struck out a lot of guys, he also walked a lot. Which is bad. Now, he was able to throw, you know, 150 pitches a start because his body was built for it.

Ryan is the most overrated athlete. I really believe that. He's still a hall of famer, and he's still a great pitcher, but he's often talked about in the same circle as Koufax, Walter Johnson, Maddux, and Cy Young, which he simply isn't.

Wait, I thought you were going with Boston? You got to make up your mind range...LOL!

WTF are we talking about Nolan Ryan for anyway? Yanks are in first! Soooo back to the subject at hand. My Yankees are on a tear lately...First place, winnning streaks here and there, pitching has been good, and bats are waking up. Of course gotta thank Boston for making all possible :)

LOL. Mets fire Tony Bernazard. I just finished watching the press conference. WTF was this guy doing over there? Sounds like he was mentally abusing the Mets and it's farm system.
"Mets executive Tony Bernazard reportedly challenged the club's Double-A team to fight him during a recent postgame tirade."-ESPN

the yanks whupped on my Oakland A's this past weekend =(

Hell yeah. Just like we are supposed to do to teams in last place...LOL. Sorry man :)

IMO he's the reason for the mets downfall the last couple of years...

he was in the hotel lobby when willie got fired, grillin him...

he flipped out on a minor league clubhouse attendant who asked him if he was the bus driver...

he flipped out on the minor league team, taking his shirt off asking who wanna fight...

he got into an arguement with K-Rod a couple of week ago in Atl.

dude is an asshole, this is the best move the Mets made all year

Nah man c'mon.....There's too many reasons why the Mets fail every year. It wasn't just him.

he definately contributed, you can't have an attitude like that in the clubhouse

mets just hit a grand slam BTW, coincidence, i think not

The reason that the Mets suck is their GM. He built a VERY top-heavy team and has no starting pitching past Santana and Maine. He's a very bad GM and he's not going anywhere since the Wilpons just lost a lot of money in the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme.

I honestly thought Omar started off on the good foot though. At the time it seemed like he made some pretty decent pickups but then it ended there. LOL...I feel for Met fans man I really do.

So nobody has heard of it yet? This is a big one: David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez were both on that list of 100 players who tested positive in 2003...

I don't get too angry at pro athletes because I know they're all human and bound to make mistakes just like the rest of us. But I think Ortiz was the last straw for me...I can never trust any of these players again. They're all guilty until proven innocent to me now...I don't care who it is. If they had big power numbers, they're guilty to me. I never thought Ortiz would be a cheater, especially after the strong words he used this past offseason about kicking out all the players who get caught using steroids from MLB.

This fucking blows! I would do anything to play one game in MLB for free, so I really don't get how any guy who has already made it to the big leagues and is getting paid millions already to play baseball for six months out of the year can so incredibly stupid. Fucking jackasses.

Finally, finally, finally! It's about time they release some Red Sox names. Hardy, I knew Ortiz was taking something so it was just a matter of time that word got out. You don't go from being a mediocre player in Minnesota to being a beast in Boston overnight.

I'm also really disappointed at ALL of the players that tested positive for ANY enhancing drugs because they not only tarnished the game but let down so many kids that looked up to them. BUT, I can't really blame them 100% though. I blame baseball and Bug Selig for turning a blind eye to this for so long.

I say strip the Red Sox of their 04 and 07 rings!!! Those rings won't count to me anymore...so back to 1918 for them.

Face the facts, people on your favorite team are on that list too! There will be MORE Yankee's on it, Mets on it, Rangers on it, Mariners on it. The only team I think that might actually be safe is Pittsburgh, they have sucked since 92 lol!

All this talk about stripping of titles,thats just dumb. Shit, how many players have been on the shit, I say make it legal, let them all take it and then watch what happens. You want to even the playing field? Let everybody do it! lol

LOL. Pittsburg even sucked at taking steriods.
Yeah, I think the WWE should just buyout a portion of baseball at this point...I mean why not.

Ortiz is such a hypocrite too. Remember how he was bashing A-Rod for taking roids?

Pedro is on the list =\

Wow...Look at these Ortiz stats that espn just showed

Before 2003
Seasons = 6
BA=. 266
HR= 58
RBI= 238

After 2003 (when he joined the Red Sox)
Seasons= 7
BA= .290
HR= 244
RBI= 766

I don't think we'll be hearing from vlad for a minute....it's a sad day in Boston right now :)

worst prediction i've heard. the dodgers will get swept by the phillies. dodgers are overated in that weak division.

This is stupid. So stupid. So very stupid.

Just about the dumbest thing I've ever read.

There is no reason to do so. Every single team, and I'd wager 80% of players, were on some sort of drug. Are you REALLY willing to go back and strip those Yankee teams? What about players who were on greenies back in the 40s, 50s, and 60s? Those are amphetamines - and banned now - so shouldn't we strip Hank Aaron of his home run record too? I mean, he was using a drug to get himself going - whats the difference? What about Babe Ruth, who used to inject material from sheep testicles into his body (I'm not joking, look it up), thinking it would help him get stronger?

The point is this: we can't go back and change the past. Putting asterisks on things, stripping titles, that's just stupid. EVERY baseball fan with half a brain knew that there were players on EVERY TEAM who were using PEDs. There's a few other things I'd like to say about this. First - we don't know what Ortiz tested positive for. For all we know, he tested positive for something that was legal in MLB, but not by the standards of the International Doping Agency - which is entirely possible. Second - I think that Ortiz has earned the benefit of the doubt - let's find out what he tested positive for. The guy has been a very vocal supporter for a stricter steroid policy.

NOW, as for this:



Where do I begin? That's really unfair to call that 6 seasons. He played 455 seasons there and was injured a lot - he had an tear in his wrist that sapped him of his power for a long time. He was also playing in a system that asked him to BUNT.

Now, he comes to Boston and he hits much better, becomes a legend, etcetera. What do I think happened? Honestly? I think he did use something to get stronger. But stronger doesn't suddenly make you a better hitter - it just makes you stronger. I think, like a lot of other guys who leave an organization and get better, he got a better hitting coach, was playing in a lineup with guys like Manny, Nomar, etc - and he changed his stance. There is absolute PROOF of him changing how he physically stood at the plate - pitchers used to be able to sneak fastball by him inside and partway through the season that just ceased to be a possibility. It wasn't. So now what? Obviously it wasn't all some sort of PED, and anyone who follows baseball can tell this.

Again, I think giving Ortiz the benefit of the doubt to find out what he tested positive for is a good thing. He faced the media immediately and let them know when he found out, he'd let everyone know. The guy has been a VERY vocal basher of steroid use. I'm a Red Sox fan, yeah, so I'm sort of on a side here - but I still think it's fair to let someone find out what they did wrong before we hang them.

(Also, dude, it's Lad, not Vlad).

We got Washburn!!! That makes for a really solid starting rotation!

on a side note, i heard that one of the lawyers who leaked names is doing a 21/2 year bid.....

@ first i wanted all the players names outed, but now that i'm a little more familiar, i feel like the civil rights violation that these players have endured is worse that people who might be on a drug playing a game

My bad...I knew it was lad. I work with a Vlad so I think I got it confused when I was typing:)

Anyway...I was just kidding when I said strip them of the titles...but seriously those WS championships are now tainted so I will not count them as being legit....whatever way you slice it, it is what it is. And I won't be the only one that will think like that. It's just like in my mind the person who still holds the record for most HRs will be Roger Maris.

Now, I don't care if Ortiz changed his stance or they made him bunt when he wasn't with Boston. It's a stat that clearly says he was on something.

I hate when I hear the argument that it "only makes you stronger and will not change your skill". OK, so I'm an average player that can never hit it out of the park.....I get some juice and now I'm hitting HRs 500ft or better.....you see how steroids changes things even though it doesn't affect your skill?

And I'm not going to throw him completely under the bus either until more details come out. But you have to admit like Hardy said....it's guilty until proven innocent in today's game of baseball.

I want all of the names LOL. Did you hear that Canseco mentioned that there is also a HOFer on that list?

So Red Sox got Victor Martininez, which is pretty nice.
White Sux got Jake Peavey (who is on the DL)....punk bitches.

IMO, they are not tainted b/c it was an even playing fiel, and by even i mean the whole league was on roids...



this is how i see it...

steroids increases your strength...
increased strength means increased bat speed/control...
increased bat speed/control means you get a better swing on the ball.

what i don't like is players taking ADD drugs to focus better

Steroids don't really increase your strength. They just give your body the ability to recover sooner.

ok, but most guys are using them to recover faster from workouts, that add strength

Both are great pick ups.

Nah. They're going back to 1918 in my mind...so the curse still lives...LOL

Red Sox fired 2 staff members for having steroids on them.sports.espn.go.com

Melky hits for the cycle and it wasn't at the "new" Yankee stadium....go figure right!? sports.espn.go.com

is this the story where one of the guys fired was one of the announcers son or something?

Yep!

Remys kid also beat his girlfriend. He's a dick 100%.

Guys, I will be in NYC in September (Next month) and I wanna goto the Yankee's VS Redsox game on the 25th...

My very first baseball game after watching on TV for years!!

Question is what section on the stadium is best for viewing?? What area's would u recommend? Or more so NOT recommend i buy tickets in>

Thanks!! and I cannot wait till I get there!!!

I love NYC but I recomment you watch a baseball game in Detroit and St. Louis with real baseball fans. :)

*recommend

For a series like that I would HIGHLY recommend you sit in the bleachers. Not the best view but you'll have a blast if you're not the type who gets easily offended :) I didn't like the old bleachers when they banned alcohol from there but they lifted the ban now so it's back to being cool. Of course, if you have enough money you can go all out and drop about $2,600 a ticket and sit on the field. They are also some seats that have blind spots so I would look those up...I don't know them off the top of my head.

Your choice of seating would probably be limited because it's a Sox/Yankees series. Most of the good seats usually get sold out quick.

I don't know who talks the most crap...McCarver or Morgan.blogs.nypost.com

Wasn't what I expected him to say, and I can actually say that I agree to some extent.

yeah i also thought it was gonna be another "joba should be an 8th inning setup man!" rant

McCarver is an idiot. He also thought that Pete Rose shouldn't be let back in to baseball. He said that "betting" is the worse crime in baseball....WTF!? I also heard that he's going to be coming out with a CD too...LOL!

O.K so let's get it on! Roid Sox VS Yanks 4 game series starts tonight in the Bronx. Looks like we'll be increasing this first place lead :)

hilarious evidence here: www.firejoemorgan.com

HAHA...that looks like some funny stuff in there. Wait, let me get a cup of coffee...I gotta read the whole thing.

Haha, those are hilarious! I hate both guys too! I actually wish somebody besides Fox gets the contract to do WS soon.

LMAO @ these Tim McCarver quotes

"I only care about on-base percentage if you can run. If you can't run, I could care less about on-base percentage."

"A-Rod just fouls that ball off beautily."

"On-base percentage? How about contact percentage?!"

"First year as a relief pitcher in the Angel chain, Woods made 97 out of 98 starts, did Woods, as a starter."

"In Scrabble, W's are worth 4 points. S's are only worth 1 point. But as far as Papelbon is concerned, S's are worth a lot more than W's."

"It stands to reason that guys vary as far as their strength is concerned from start to start. Sometimes 90 pitches is too much. Sometimes 130 pitches are not enough. A guy could throw 150 pitches per start."

"A Mark Wohlberg fastball. Catch me if you can."

"I think if Norman Rockwell were alive the guy that he would paint more than anyone else would be David Eckstein."

ahhh, finally got the monkey off their backs. boston can win the next 3 and we'll still be .5 games up. hate to say it, and i respect his career, but smoltz does not appear to be able to continue much further. also, i know you need youkilis' bat in the lineup, but left field?

anyway, i've got my drink on and the yanks have made me happy.

About time we get that first win. This is without a doubt a totally different Yankee team this time around. I'm not happy with the 12 walks we gave up though. Boston looked tired and worn...they didn't have that look of confidence in them...I don't know.
I was laughing when I saw Yook out in left field. They can still use him as a DH if they sit Ortiz out...Ortiz was 0-5 last night!! I mean I know they love him and all but you would think that they would rather do that than completely fall out of the race.
I see this getting ugly for Boston really fast. Part 2 of the beating comes tonight...LOL

So... that must have been fun to watch for you Boston fans

WOOOOOOOWWWWW! Classic f*cking game! At least for the Yankees LMAO! Man, I love my team! Curse lives on FTW!!!

OK...back to my crates :)

They good. They're used to that :)

Great game last night. Really was. Classic great pitching beating great hitting most of the game. Hats off to all pitchers. Hard to put a guy who was in AA three weeks ago in that position (Tazawa), but the Sox ran out of pitchers.

As for Youkilis in LF - they had no choice. What should they have done? Youks to DH... with Bay hurt, Baldelli on the DL.... put Nick Green in LF? Reddick wasn't available at the start of the game.

So FWIW:

Ortiz has tested clean 13 times since 2003. He said (like I expected him to) that he took stuff from GNC like Andro that wasn't banned by baseball but would still produce a positive test result. Then baseball banned it and he went off of it.

Manny was on an obvious cycling program and A-Rod was getting shots in his ass. Ortiz was basically drinking shakes from GNC. HUGE difference.

<cough>bullshit<cough>

Manny was cycling, Arod got shots in the ass, and poor old Ortiz was just quenching his summer thirst with a milkshake? Please get serious.

Great baseball!! It's a wrap for the Sox at this point though. They are heading down the Mets path IMO.
Side note- How long was Dave Magadan the Sox batting coach? I still have doubles of his Topps "future stars" rookie card.
Oh yeah...That Ortiz interview was such a damn joke!
LOL. Joe Morgan was just knocking Mark Teixeira's stance....and how he leans on his back leg "hence" the reason why he only hits pop-ups. The next at bat (when MT hit the go ahead HR) ......JM was like "that's why he put it out for a HR because he has all his power on that back leg".....LOL, Joe Morgan is such a tool.

The sweep feels good. Watchwww.youtube.com

red sox better hope they make the playoffs. the rangers and the rays are lurking.

Sweet! My boy just gave me some tickets for tonights game...good seats too.

i was at last night's game too. mitre sucks.

Yeah Mitre sucks ass. Gave up 5 runs in 5 IP. Toronto's bullpen pretty much shut us down. I left right after the 7th though....I was sweating my nuts off in that humidity.

Boston is so upset about the sweep that they're starting brawls :)

kevin youkilis is weeeeeeeak...even the mlb network studio announcers are making fun of him

Got thrown down to the ground by Porcello, who weighs may be 170 lbs soaked wet. They had that coming though...if you're gonna throw at our best hitter 2 nights in a row.

and why the heck did he throw his helmet at porcello lol that was such a bitch move

^^^^^LOL! Werd...who throws a helmet at someone then gets slammed on his back?....LOL!
Best part is that he's going to be suspended a few games for that one.

good win last night. johnny damon is having some season. they are going to have to resign him for next year. Matsui is soooo clutch, too bad he won't be coming back.

I'm hoping Tigers can sign Matsui for next year! Its weird that I hate the Yankees so much as a team, but really have always like so many of their players - Jeter, Mo, Matsui, Bernie (back in the day), RJ, etc....I guess I just hate Steinbrenner like the rest of the people with common sense. :P

^^^^LOL Hardy. I think a lot of people hate the Yankees because of the Steinbrenners.
I heard about the win last night but didn't see how they did it. I'm watching the encore from my desk right now. I have to admit though JD is having a great season so I can picture the Yankees giving him another year too. Matsui's problem from the jump has been staying healthy.....But when he is healthy...He's clutch!

O.K so it's starting to look like The Yankees might end up taking the East. Jeter breaks the record for most hits by a SS. The Yankees are having the best second half starts in Yankee history. Boston...well they need some help right now. They released Smoltz which was no brainer so they might shape up in time to make a run for the Wild Card if Tampa doesn't get hot and bumps them out of that race too.

I can easily see another sweep for the Yankees this weekend against Boston. We are just too hot right now.

And the Sox win yesterday 14-1 and have Beckett going tonight.

Oh, and Beckett > Sabathia.

word and i'd rather lose 20-11, than 14-1

Oh snap lad is finally back...what's up dude? How are those Jeter stats coming along? LOL....Jeter is breaking all sorts of records this year.
Range--Didn't the Mets get shutout 11-0 by Atlanta the other day? And a loss is a loss however you look at it but whatever.

Ha...a little after I read this...2 HRs off of Beckett in 2 IP....just saying.

yankees looking good tonight. arod with a bomb!

Yeah they really do. Beckett = 4 HRs, 7 Runs in 5IP so far....not a good look. I trying to figre out why he's still in the game.
Side note- Another reason why I can't stand Joe Morgan...When Cano dropped that ball he said the reason why was because Cano wasn't in control and over ran the ball. During the replays it was clear that Cano slipped on the dirt.

*figure

Apparently not.

About Cano, I really think he should have let Tex taken that. He may have slid but he over ran then slid.

even though we are ahead of the bosox, i think we will be helping them this week. if we beat up on texas and they win, they can secure the wild card. double edge sword.

I hate series like that, but the wild card race is just a tiny bit tighter than the division, and there are still plenty of games left.

Not if Tampa beats up on Toronto too. IMO I can't picture Boston even being in the wildcard picture if they continue playing like they are. They threw out their best pitcher last night and he got owned. Still don't get why they left him out there for 7 runs but whatever. It reminded me of when Joe Torre used to leave pitchers out there to get abused.

I'll still take Beckett over Sabathia any day of the week. Look at their career records and their records in the playoffs. Plus... Sabathia is a 300 pound dude.... 300 pound guys in baseball don't tend to hold up for a long time.

O.K so I looked up the stats....
Career
Both have 9 seasons but CC pitched almost 500 innings MORE...that's crazy.

CC = 1,844 IP--132(W)-80(L)
Beckett = 1,359 IP--103(W)-67(L)

Seems like the 300 pound dude is simply a workhorse.

Post season
CC only pitched in 5 games versus Beckett's 13 so with that right there it's hard to say who I would choose in the post season. PLUS the 12 ER in the 07 ALCS really messed up CC.

If you've seen Beckett pitch in the post season, it's not hard to pick him over ANY pitcher out there!

I'm not saying that he isn't good in the post season....shoooot...he owned the Yanks in 03 when he pitched for Florida.

I can still hate him though... I am a pretty rational easy going guy but he finds a way to bother me.

For some reason "turd" is always what comes to mind when I see him.

As much as I despise him... the league is better with him around. Cause when the Yanks beat him it is that much sweeter... but when they loose to him it really sucks... lol... isn't that what being a sports fan is all about???

LOL!!! What makes it even worse is that he's usually cool, calm and collected when he owns. I never liked him for what he did in that WS when he was with Florida so signing with Boston only seemed fitting.

We sucked it up yesterday!

I just got my Boston cap out....

Today's Yankee game is a total disaster. Walking in 3 runs in one inning, hitting batters in the face, slamming into each other in the outfield....LOL It can't get any worse.

The best thing about it is that Boston will not smell the playoffs...you heard it here first.

I don't know... I won't say anything til they are eliminated.

Remember the Mets?

We finally won and swept a series on the road. Been almost 4 months since it last happened. LOL

WOW...Yanks are on a tear and there is no stopping us. DJ hits to tie Lou Gehrig's record! It's an amazing (no Mets) year without a doubt and I hope I didn't just jinx it. Hey, it's baseball so who the hell knows what can happen.

Who are they again?

Detroit's looking like they have a little something in them too Hardy....Lad, how them stats looking for the Sox?

It's on this weekend !

Indeed.....

Lester is looking bad out there right now.

Ouch!

Shit was scary man.... if it was Beckett I would have laughed.. but I like Lester...

hope he is ok.....

Take that back! Ever since you said that, we've been getting killed! LOL

Its really the only exciting penant race left in baseball. Tigers vs. Twins.

AL East and home field!

Hell yeah...Nice Boston sweep too! Couldn't have asked for a better way to end the season.

Hardy- Detroit is still hanging in there man :)

Good games vs the Twins so far. Ooops, shouldn't have said anything.

Side Note* I can't stand the fact that the red sox is going to be in the playoffs....I mean, this is why I hate the Wild Card. Thanks to TB playing shitty ball after the break.

You hate the Sox being in the playoffs b/c you're scared of them! haha

Yeah, yesterday wasn't so bad after all...no ground lost to the Twins and fewer games to make up the 2 game difference. In my book, if the Tigers win one of the next two against the Twins, they'll make it. Ideally, they should win both and then they can rest their big arms for the playoffs. But that's just not likely with his team. I'm expecting this to be decided Saturday or Sunday.

The Wildcard is the best thing that Selig has done, without question.

Meanwhile, if CC Sabathia wins the Cy Young over Greinke, or if Derek Jeter wins the MVP over Mauer, I'm going to fucking shoot someone.

I'd like to hear an actual argument to be made for either CC or Jeter.

BTW:

Greinke has 3 less wins on a team that will win 40 less games, while posting an ERA that's 30 (THIRTY!) earned runs better and while striking out 40 more. And the lowest HR/9 rate in the league. He's literally having a Pedro season.

Mauer is putting up the best AVG, OBP, SLG, in the AL. He's playing top-notch defense and is carrying that offense, especially since Morneau is done. The difference in Win Shares between Mauer and Jeter is the same as Jeter and Jacoby Ellsbury. Oh yeah - and Jeter is 7th (!) on his own team in OPS among regulars. He's 8th in home runs, and while he does lead his own team in AVG and OBP, he's 8th in SLG. Derek Jeter, simply put, isn't even the MVP of his own team.

Joe Mauer is putting up the best numbers by a catcher in the last decade, possibly ever. Legitimately. He's 30 OPS+ points ahead of 2nd place (Teixeira, who is the real MVP candidate on the Yankees).

Yep, there's no way CC or anyone else should be even considered. Greinke should be unanimous.

the only thing jeter has going is that he's actually been a really good defensive shortstop this year and combined with his nice offensive numbers as a SS...he is at least worthy of a small argument...but yeah Mauer should be the MVP.

Because they are Yankees.

Actually, I'm more afraid of the Angels. I would like to see another do or die matchup between the Yanks and Boston.

You mean to tell me that a team that ends up with the 4th best record in the league and ends up winning the WS is fair to the rest of the teams who has held on their top spots all season??

yes. its not like the nba or nhl where half the league makes the playoffs.

LOL

/argument

lets go mets!

Mauer hasn't been playing half of his games at a gimmicky park all year. ;)

You mean to tell me that a team that ends up with the 4th best record in the league and ends up winning the WS is fair to the rest of the teams who has held on their top spots all season??
What?
That makes no sense. It's not the 4th best record, even. In fact, the Red Sox are going to have at the very least, the 3rd best record in the AL. In 2008, the WC had the 3rd best. In 2007, the WC was tied for 3rd. In 2006, was 3rd. Do you see my point?

The WC allows for more competition and more worthy teams to make the playoffs.

Like I said, it's Greinke and Mauer, and there's really no competition at either one. There is no logical argument to be made in favor of any other player.

I know what you mean but I always looked at it as 4th best. The way I see it is if you win your division you're first.....so the wildcard looks like 4th best in my eyes when you exclude the first place winners. The wildcard doesn't make for better competition...it's more of a free pass. If you want real comp you take the top 4 teams regardless of divisions. I mean why even have divisions then right? Just make it American League vs. National league and have your top 4 teams at the end of the year enter the playoffs.

I look back at 97 and 03 and as a Yankee fan...that was wack. It makes sense that you would have a different look at the wildcard being that Boston did benefit from it in 04.

I had to look this stat up. Since it started in 1995, Boston has the most wildcard appearances with 7! LOL...no wonder you support this so much.

That has nothing to do with why I like it.

It rewards good play. Sometimes teams win 103 games and don't make the playoffs (see the 1993 Giants). They should have been a playoff team. It's not a free pass at all. If you're in a division with a team that has a 100 win season and you have a 95 win season, good enough to win other divisions - how is that a free pass? You played great - good enough to be a playoff team.

Sorry if you don't like it, but it sounds like you have serious sour grapes about it since the Yankees have lost to so many Wild Card teams.

It's stupid to look at it as 4th best. Look at records - that's what matters. And, actually, I'm all for getting rid of divisions. I think the divisional alignment creates unfair scheduling (the Blue Jays would probably have won the AL Central this year and made the playoffs last year if not in the AL East). I say make it 2 big divisions and have everyone play the same schedule - that's how it used to be anyway.

I think they SHOULD make it so the WC team only gets 1 home game in a 5-game series, but that's something else altogether.

didn't they change to the "unbalanced" schedule so that teams would play their division rivals more often? this seemingly made things more interesting for the fans in mlb's mind...

Yo, I love the divisions! My team would have no shot right now if it was the 4 best records in the AL...haha!

And I just wanna give mad props to Eddiet Bonine...AAA call up from Toledo who is outpitching Pavano (4-0 against Tigers this season - w/ CLE & MIN). Watch out Yankees, we're coming for you!

I'm going to tomorrow and hoping that they beat the Twins so I can pop some champagne!!! :)

It's 4th best however you look at it lad. You can sit here all day and say that a wc team played hard all season long etc, etc...But the fact still remains that they didn't play hard enough to win in their OWN division so why give they new life?

Uno- Selig put this into the game to make it look like they really cared about its fans and their teams. I always felt that it was a way to change things up a bit being that they lost so many fans after the strike...including myself for a little bit. Never forget that Selig thinks about money, mlb, owners, and then their fans...in that order.

I highly doubt that anything will change anytime soon especially regarding the divisions and scheduling....With FOX, ESPN, YES, etc all out to get those ratings and paper....the scheduling will never be right.

Also, I am looking at records...I see 3 winners in 3 different divisions who won their divisions FIRST.... then I see the WC winner.

I'm sorry, but it's not 4th best. You are simply wrong, Cisco. I'm sorry. And I'll show you why.

I know you think my feeling about the WC stem from the Sox, but they don't. The WC makes for a better playoffs as it allows better teams to get into the show. Since 1995 (the start of WC play) 19 of the 27 teams that won the WC were not the 4th best team in their league. So you tell me - what makes for better competition? Allowing the better teams in the postseason or not? I would think that having better teams and better competition would be a good thing. In fact we haven't had a team in 2000s (outside of the 2005 3-way tie) where the 4th best team by winning pct was the Wild Card team. That's how wrong you are.

Want to hear something amazing? Since 2004, there have been 12 wild card teams - only ONE of them had the 4th best record (2004 Astros). In 2005, 3 teams (Sox, Yankees, Angels) had the same record. I don't know about the 2009 NL WC yet but right now the Rockies have the same record as the Cardinals.

It has nothing to do with winning their own division, that's the thing. You want the best teams in the playoffs. The Wild Card ALLOWS for the best teams to make the playoffs (as I have shown to you), despite possibly playing in a division where team outspends everyone else by at least close to a 2:1 ratio. Or it allows a team like the Rockies, who have had an absurdly good record since June 1st, to make the playoffs.

Look at strength of schedule. Teams in the AL East beat the shit out of each other all season - hell, even Baltimore wasn't horrible outside of the AL East (40-50). Toronto was a 49-41 team when not playing the AL East.

I believe that the Red Sox are in fact the 2nd best in baseball, behind the Yankees. Then the Angels. Then pick your favorite NL team, but even then I might put the Rays or Tigers next. As I said, last year the four best teams in baseball were in the AL East - Rays, Red Sox, Yankees, and Blue Jays. You can put the Phillies 5th if you'd like, but I might put the Angels ahead of them.

I'm sorry Cisco, but you're simply wrong about this one. You aren't looking at the facts here - the fact is that more often that not (70% of the time) the worst team in a league to make the playoffs is not a Wild Card team. It's a division "winner".

Yes, what lad said. Not always 4th best.

OK... "technically" it's not 4th best but I still "see it" like that. Put it like this...the WC in my eyes only rewards mediocrity at best. If you can't put together a good ballclub in 162 games good enough to win your division then you don't belong in the playoffs...period. You have 7 months to make trades, bring guys up and down, etc....Then you have teams that get into a late hot streak and bam they're in the playoffs. Lad, what would've been a sweeter victory in 04? Boston coming back to win the division AND the WS? Or, winning the WC and winning the WS? They should start making WC banners so teams can hold ceremonies the next year when they hang them up...LOL. Seriously, since 95 which pennant race was actually a good classic one to watch or follow? They don't exist anymore.

It has EVERYTHING to do with winning your division...why do you think they even made division in the first place? If it was about the top teams then why did they change it to begin with?

So you say it brings more excitement for other cities that played good and didn't win their division? Then might as well add another few playoffs slots then...right? Why leave other cities out that played their hardest but came up half a game shy of the WC? I mean lets add some more WC slots or another division so we can have "the best teams" compete. Where does the line get drawn to determine the "real top teams"?

But it's NOT mediocrity, Cisco! I mean, how much clearer could this be? 70% of the WC teams have been better than a division winner! That's the very definition of NOT mediocre! The WC allows for teams who are in a division with a huge spender or a juggernaut who STILL win 95 games to make the playoffs!! I mean in 2001, the Mariners won 116 games and the A's still won 102 -- are you telling me the A's didn't deserve to make the playoffs winning 102 games? There is no logical argument to make that that says that winning 102 games shouldn't get you into the playoffs. NONE. You cannot make a cogent or realistic argument otherwise, unless you think that the we should switch back to having just the best team in each league make the WS and that's it.

There have been plenty of good pennant races since 1995 - if you aren't looking, then you're insane. Mets/Phillies in 2007, Mets/Phillies in 2008 (sorry Mets fans), the Padres/Rockies in 2007 (one game playoff!), Twins/White Sox in 2008 (another one game playoff) - that's just the last two seasons! I mean, pay attention, man.

They made divisions because of time zones and game start times. It's really that simple. There wasn't a need for divisions when all the teams were east of the Rockies. You couldn't have the Mariners in the same time zone as the Marlins (although for a while the Braves were in the West but that was tied to when they were in Milwaukee).

Like it or not, the WC is a good thing. It allows for better teams to make the playoffs. You don't seem to like it, and I'm guessing that has to do with the Red Sox and Marlins winning the WS after making it as a WC.

I agree. I like the WC and I really do think it makes October more exciting. I can see the argument about being 4th best, but the only way to get rid of that stigma is to have 4 divisions, and hopefully that type of clusterfuck wouldn't happen.

On that note, GO YANKEES!

You add 2 teams to the AL and you can do it. 4 divisions per league, 4 teams per division. Hell you can even do it like the NFL does it - 2 WC teams per league/conference. Players association would have no problem with two teams being added - that means 50 more jobs for players.

and then baseball could go into December!

No. Tough luck if they couldn't win their division. It sucks for sure....but that's the rules man. I mean one can probably argue that 95 games is good enough to make the playoffs too.
These won't go down as classics. Exciting? Sure...but not classics. I'm talking about 87 Tigers, 78 Sox/Yanks(Bucky Dent....sorry sox fans)...Games like those. Those were classics.
Fine, look at it from your point of view and I'll look at it from mine. Honestly, I was never a fan of most of the changes in baseball...interleague play, expansion teams, moving teams from AL to NL...and the WC. It just so happens that we were beaten by both WC winners and expansion teams.

The reason I feel like this won't work in baseball is because there's 162 games to be played...that's more then enough games. It's a better fit for the NFL since they only have 16 games a season.

You don't think the biggest collapse in baseball history (07 Mets/Phillies) qualifies as classic?

that padres rockies one game playoff was a classic game too, they showed it on espn classic that same week lol

didn't the Mets have a 1 game playoff in '99?

07 Mets/Phillies wasn't a race though but t was fun to watch it happen :) And I'm not to crazy about 1 game playoffs....it's almost like tossing a coin in the air.

Yep...then they lost the NLCS to the Braves :)

actually its pretty much the polar opposite of a coin toss since they actually settle it on the field

So everyone but Cisco thinks its a good idea to have a WC, haha.

^ Guess so :)
True. But then again...I'm not a fan of the 1 game playoff or the best of 5. I would rather see the best of 7 and have it come down to a game 7.

I'm actually not a best of 5 fan either - it becomes too easy for a team to get an upset. That said, after 162 games if the teams are tied, playing 1 game to determine a winner is WAY better than 7 game series between them.

Yeah, too bad there are no good pennant races left.

:: looks at the NL Central ::

crap, :: AL Central ::

:(

Hardy, WTF.

Huh? Explain how playing 3 out of 5 is WAY easier to get an upset than a 1 game playoff?

LOL! Damn dude...I would like Detroit to pull through though.

I think a 7 game series is optimal. But asking two teams to play a 7 game series JUST to get into the playoff is unreasonable and a bad idea (the other 7 playoff teams have to wait a week and a half to play again? Horrible idea.) That's why it makes sense to have the 1-game playoff to determine who gets into the playoffs. I wish all rounds of the actual playoffs were 7 games though.

Fucking Tigers. Unlikely, but I hope they beat the shit out of Twins. If good pitching is supposed to beat good hitting, we have a good shot.

I hate hearing the media say shit like the Twins "hot streak". I mean it's just 2 games in a row. How are they so "hot"?

Won about 80-90% of their gams in the last month or so....

well not quite that blistering hot hardy, but they did close out the season on a 12-4 run which is pretty damn good

Ok, 75%, but they went on a tear. And it helped that the Tigers can't find a way to beat them.

And then this - detnews.com - what a douchebag.

Ah OK. I thought they were just referring to the series.

If you guys love baseball and you're missing this Tigers @ Twins game, you lose. Its been an amazing game....let's go Tigers!!!!!

Damn dude. I was trying not to say anything cause I didn't want to jinx it again. It did look like a good game though. I was following it through espn gamecast.

One of the best games all year!!!

Sorry Hardy... was hoping the Tigers would pull it off.....

Yeah, I'm really upset that they lost, but at the same time...it couldn't have been a better game. Instant classic, everything you can ask for...probably the best baseball game I've ever seen.

It's def up there!!!

i enjoy this miguel cabrera-related pic

deadspin.com

LOL! It's so funny you say that.

BTW...I'm not so sure about C.C but, Jeter SHOULD and most likely WILL get it just on the fact that he passed LG with hits. IMO Jeter IS the Yankees and I'm just glad I lived to watch him do his thing over the years. There is no one on the Sox that can even come close to Jeter's legacy and what he has brought to the Yanks and the game.

nobody compared him to anyone on the sox... why do yankees fans always do that?

I'm just saying...it just seems like Lad always seems to find a way to not give credit where credit's due when it comes to Yankee players....scroll up and check it.

Sorry, Lad AND Red Sax fans.

Because Rox this decade: 2
Yankees this decade: 0

Btw, Jeter is one of my fav players ever...but if he or anyone else wins MVP over Mauer - I will personally beat the crap out of everyone who voted for anyone besides Mauer. Same for Greinke.

Mauer is the AL mvp. Jeter might not even be mvp on his own team, who cares if he "is" the yankees or if he passed Lou Gehrig in hits

What's the criteria for MVP?

There is no criteria, which is why we can have all of these really fun arguments. On one hand, you have people with STATS who will argue for Joe Mauer because he was the best hitter in the league, and as a catcher, he was incredibly valuable.

On the other hand, you have idiot sportswriters and Yankee fans who will argue that Derek Jeter is somehow the league MVP because he "is a true leader" (whatever that means) and wears the pinstripes and passed Lou Gehrig on the all-time Yankees hits list.

I love it when the Yankees do something great.....the typical responses from haters are "who cares" or "that argument is so old"...LOL...I love it.

passing lou gehrig is a great accomplishment, but it has nothing to do with being league mvp

^^^^^^
especially b/c him passing lou gehrig is an an acomplishment that took years to achieve... what if he needed only one hit to pass Lou, and thats all he got was one hit this season, does that make him mvp?

OK so what makes a MVP? A player who helps a team get the best record for the season and the playoffs?....Or a player who helps a team barely make the playoffs?

the questions that you are asking depends entirely on the teammates of each respective player. jeter obviously has better teammates. using your logic, mauer is far and away the mvp.

one thing that i mentioned earlier that may be missed here is that jeter is actually a good mvp candidate BECAUSE of his offensive and defensive stats. its not because his superior yankeeness led the yankees to the best record in the league or some other nonsensical answer that the media likes to popularize.

i was at the game last night. all around good solid game for the yanks. i was little upset on how many empty seats there were. even though they were probably sold out, people just didn't show. it also very cold. i'm probably going to game 2 as well. i think we are sweeping. twins look tired. the one guy on that team that is under rated is orlando cabrrera.

Why the FUCK should Derek Jeter get the MVP??? Because he passed Gehrig? Why does that make him an MVP? That's the most backwards, insipid argument I've ever read. Congrats. For fuck's sake, CC, Teixeira, and Rivera are all better picks on his own team!

For fuck's sake, Joe Mauer just had, maybe, the best year ever for a catcher. Ever. He played top notch defense and led the league in AVG, OBP, SLG. As a catcher. He hit more homers, had more doubles, had a better BB/PA, BB/K, more total bases, and practically willed a team to the playoffs on his own (considering he lost the 2nd best hitter on his team a month ago). Jeter had more hits and more steals and played average defense - Mauer played elite defense at the hardest position to play.

Plus, Mauer made this ad a while ago:
Watchwww.youtube.com

And no, there isn't anyone on the Sox currently who can match Jeter's "legacy" in the game. So? Cisco, you don't seem to follow - this isn't an insult to Derek Jeter that he didn't have as good a year as Mauer. It's just simple fact -- I'm not saying Jeter is a shitty ballplayer. And I'm more than willing to give Yankee players credit where it is due, that's been shown time and time again in this thread. But I also call it like I see it - and I called Wang pretty damn well. I was wrong about Cano regressing, but I'm still not sold on him - his walk rate is so poor (only 30 walks this year) and it's hard to maintain being a good hitter when your production is so based on average.

I was, I'm happy to say, wrong about Joba. Other than his ERA, his rate stats were eerily similar to Buchholz last year.

Well yeah on record Mauer does put up better numbers. BUT stats aren't the only thing the voters look at when deciding. It's just the way it is unfortunately. See Morneau over Jeter and Howard over Pujols in '06. By the way Howard and the Phillies didn't even make it into the playoffs! LOL! It's almost if the voting is done on a curve.

Lad-You were also wrong about Burnett, Jeter, A-Rod, and Posada. Just saying.

The Mets vs. Angels game last night was great by the way. It almost looked like I was watching a comedy movie! Wait that wasn't the Mets...

And how come I never seen this video before....it's the funniest shit ever!!!!
Watchwww.youtube.com

great game tonight! arod looking clutch!!!

Last nights game was insane on so many levels. This game had a little bit of everything...blown calls, walk off hr, odd double play to end the rally, etc..etc. A-Rod finally comes through in the post season. Robertson getting out of the bases loaded no outs jam was also big! So much happened in this game.

They really need to do something about these umps. Obviously the Yanks benefited from last nights blown call (ground rule double that was called foul) but as a Twin fan I would be pissed! At least have instant replay for the post season.

Tough loss for the Sox. Papelbon couldn't hold on to the 2 run lead to save the game so the Sox get swept. I guess that's what happens when a team only gets 15 in the whole series.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on here. First off, Morneau shouldn't have won that MVP - but neither should Jeter. Mauer should have won that year - almost any year where a catcher gives you a 430 OBP, they should be the MVP, especially when they play elite defense. Any voter who actually says that Derek Jeter was a better player this year than Joe Mauer NEEDS to get their head checked. Because simply put - he was not. There is no argument you can make otherwise (and no, breaking Gehrig's record does not count as an argument). And for the record, I think Posada probably should have gotten 3rd place in the 2007 MVP voting behind A-Rod and Ordonez. Maybe even 2nd.

In 2006 you can make the argument for Howard over Pujols - it's not a great argument, but you can make it. Voters often get hung up on the triple crown stats - and Howard beat Pujols at HR and RBI - and hit 313. In fact, that year, Howard became one of 10 players in baseball history (Sosa, Ruth, Foxx, Howard, Greenberg, Arod, Luis Gonzalez, Junior Griffey, Hack Wilson, and George Foster) to hit 300 with 50 homers and 140 RBI in a season. I think Pujols probably deserved it, but it's hardly a robbery.

How was I wrong about Burnett? I said that he's had health problems - this is fact. I said I wouldn't trust him to be healthy, and I still wouldn't.

I'll cop to being wrong about the Yankee offense, but no one expected Yankee Stadium 3 to become a friggin launching pad. And no one expected Jorge Posada to put up numbers like that at 37 (and he did only play 111 games). Nobody thought the Yankees would hit 244 homers this year - not even you Cisco.

I'm disappointed in the way the season ended. I was on a plane coming back from a gig and turned my phone off with 2 outs in the 9th with no one on base. We landed, turned my phone and I crapped my pants.

FWIW Posada's season this year was one of the best ever by a 37 year old catcher. In terms of post-expansion era guys (1954-now), only one other catcher has put up comparable seasons, and that's Fisk. And Fisk played til he was 45. He caught 143 games at 43. I don't see Posada holding up that well, but who knows.

yankees in 6 against angels.

red sox look bad. they look old.

Hmmm.... I hope... Angels are real tough for the Yanks.

Jeter should pull the team through though.... that's why he is the MVP.

WOW! What a sweet birthday weekend for me...Sox get swept and sent home, Yanks sweep to advance, Giants stomp the Raiders, and Pats lose in O.T. OK so this Yanks/Angels matchup should be a nice one. Yanks in 5.....yeah 5.

Lad- I was just using Morneau and Howard to prove that the MVP winners doesn't always have the better stats. LOL@ "launching pad"...Yeah 244 HRs is a crazy shitload of HRs but I think that would've happened at the old park. Well, maybe not 244 but close to it. Everyone was on their A game this year, pitchers (except Wang), big bats coming through...especially in the clutch which seemed like it never happened last year...etc. But yes, Jorge SHOCKED me this year without a doubt. I think the presence of Molina got him thinking differently this year like "damn, I'm not going to be playing this game for much longer"..who knows.

LOL!

Time to stop by the barbershop this weekend :)

You're not following though - the Morneau/Howard argument is at least one where the winner wasn't a complete robbery. Morneau and Howard were both very good and there are actual arguments to make about them winning.

Using the value determinant of batting runs above average (just batting, since fielding runs doesn't exist for catchers), Mauer was the best hitter in the AL, with 56. Jeter comes in with 37.4, which is still very good (that's 6th in the league). Now, that's a difference of 18.6 - a huge amount. It's equal to the difference between Jeter and Russell Branyan or Denard Span.

If we look at VORP, Mauer also led the league in that, with 91. That's really high - but Jeter was 2nd with 68.1. But again, the difference between the two is HUGE - the difference is the same between Jeter and Jason Kubel. Using RARP, which adjusts for position, Mauer was 1st with 74.4, Jeter 2nd with 60.7, aka the difference between Jeter and Shin-soo Choo.

Now, honest question - do you think that Russell Branyan or Denard Span or Jason Kubel or Shin-soo Choo should be compared to Derek Jeter? And if so, why? What are you reasons, other than the previously stated "Gehrig hits" argument.

Taking all of this into consideration, there is no argument to be made for Jeter winning the MVP. None. And, especially when you consider that Mauer is without a doubt an elite defender and Jeter is absolutely not (although this year he was 6th in the AL among SS for fielding runs above average), it's a complete landslide in one direction.

All of that said - I still think Jeter will get a bunch of first place votes and I would not be shocked to see him win. I think those voters who pick him should be kicked out of the BBWAA, but I think he has a good shot for the reasons you suggested - more of a "lifetime" award, the hits record, etc. This is rather than actually looking at value, but we know that sportswriters are usually pretty dumb. The only major knock of Mauer was his missing the first month of the season, but considering how great he was this year (and he still qualified for the batting title, getting the necessary 512 plate appearances), that doesn't change things.

+1, except for him winning part...I'd be shocked to see him win. It would be like the 2004 Presidential election all over again if Jeter wins.

You mean "should" or "shouldn't"? So now Jeter is on the same level as these guys? I'm not taking anything away from these guys but I think even they will agree that they are not on the same level as Jeter.

Agree. This is what I was trying to get at exactly. Also, by the Yankees advancing to the ALCS, that just helped Jeter get some more votes over Mauer. Just for the record, I never compared Jeter's record to Mauer's (no doubt it's one-sided)...I was just stating how the voting doesn't always turn to the stats when choosing a winner.

-The more I read about how people will flip out if Jeter wins, the more I want to see him win. Just to piss off the haters...LOL!